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F5-RES Rules discussion


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Quite right Peter. In my opinion, the main reason that esoaring went out of favour with many competition pilots was the fact that it was impossible to tell if there were any over flys and the end of slot timing countdown was quite off putting as it signalled the end of the complete slot and probably not the pilots 10 minutes.

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3 hours ago, ceebee said:

Quite right Peter. In my opinion, the main reason that esoaring went out of favour with many competition pilots was the fact that it was impossible to tell if there were any over flys and the end of slot timing countdown was quite off putting as it signalled the end of the complete slot and probably not the pilots 10 minutes.

Plus there is/was a 10% allowance for exceeding the height limit, which was seldom checked.

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eSoaring Rules also include

"One point will be deducted for every second flown in excess of 600 seconds (10:00
minutes).

Any landing bonus is unaffected provided the landing is completed within the 11 minutes
working time and also within 10 minutes and 30 seconds (a total of 630 seconds) of the
start of flight time."

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Out of interest @Martynk, is there any work on developing rules for F5-RES in Germany or elsewhere? There seem to be quite a few electric versions of F3-RES models available.

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Hi Paul 

I am not aware of any discussions being held elsewhere. 

 

I'll see if I can find out what the Germans and Dutch are doing where F3-RES is very popular

 

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I Have been sent the Dutch rules. This is the Google translation:  (I think this is the same as the German/Austrian rules and is clearly derived from the F3-RES rules)

---

15.2 RC-ERES gliders with electric propulsion

15.2.1 General provisions "ERES" is a competition class for radio controlled electric powered gliders with a maximum span of two (2) meters in "predominantly" wooden construction. Steering is done via rudder and elevator and spoilers as landing flaps (placed at the top of the wing at least 5 cm in front of the trailing edge). b) Definition of radio controlled flight model: A flight model whose lift is based on aerodynamic forces acting on immobile surfaces. Only the start takes place with the help of an electric motor. c) At least four (4) preliminary rounds are flown in the competition. The participants are divided into groups per preliminary round. The results from each group are "normalized" to per grand to arrive at comparable values for the flight groups, even if the weather conditions change during a lap. The four (4), but maximum eight (8) competitors with the highest overall ratings from the preliminary rounds will fly a “fly-off” with two more (2) rounds as final rounds in a group to determine the final rating. The group size in the "Fly-Off" corresponds to the group size in the preliminary rounds. d) The competitor may use a maximum of two (2) models in the competition. The models can be changed at any time, but only within a run if the model started first is located within a maximum radius of 15 meters from the assigned landing point. e) The competitor may use a maximum of two (2) helpers. They are allowed to start and collect the model for him and to inform him about the weather, flight and frame times while flying. f) The organizer must have official judges / timekeepers. If this is not the case, the pilot helpers will stop the flight time, but the organizer will check the flight times on a random basis. Deviations of more than three (3) seconds in favor of the competitor will result in a zero rating of the flight. g) The landing points are always registered by an official judge.

15.2.2 Model

15.2.2.1 The model usually consists of a wing, fuselage and tail unit. Flying wing models that have no fuselage and no lift or vertical stabilizer or none of these components are also permitted if they have only two (2) control valves in total. Each of these control valves should be controlled by only one servo. Otherwise, the building regulations for the models with tail units apply accordingly. The model is made in "predominantly" wood construction. The following construction methods are allowed: a) open rib surface, plank rib surface, "D-Box", solid wood surface, a combination of solid wood and ribs. b) All components must be made of wood. This does not apply to: for edging strips, spars, surface joints or joints.

15.2.2.2 c) The surface of the sash may be covered with iron-on foil, silk, paper or polyester fabric. The provisions a to c inclusive apply mutatis mutandis to the design of the tail unit. d) The landing flap (s) must be placed at the top of the wing at least 5 cm in front of the trailing edge. The landing flaps can be operated with one or two servos. e) The fuselage must be made entirely of wood, or with an arm for the tail unit made of GRP / CFK / Kevlar tube or profile. The sleeve / profile may extend to a maximum of half the surface depth of the wing. f) The hull can be surface coated with GFK / CFK / Kevlar to increase strength. The coated surface should be only 1/3 the length of the wooden hull. The surface treatment can be done with paint, or as with the wing. g) All rudder bearing and linkage parts are excluded from the CFRP / GFRP restriction. h) The electric motor is freely selectable. i) The propulsion battery is freely selectable. The use of a) of positive or negative shapes for the fuselage and wing construction and the application of the surfaces b) Fixed or retractable devices to slow the model when landing on the ground (e.g. bolts, saw-tooth protruding devices, etc.) Nothing may protrude from the bottom of the model, except for a maximum of two high-start hooks (size: each 5 mm wide x 15 mm high). The start hooks can be adjustable, but adjustment or release should not be done via the remote control c) a nose radius of less than 5 mm d) Ballast that is not in the model and securely attached to the cubicle is added e) any information transfer from the flight model to the competitor, except signal strength, receiver temperature and receiver battery voltage (no variometer) f) from airport telecommunication systems by participants and their helpers (including radios and telephones)

15.2.3 Competition area The race must be based on the b) The start is within two (2) meters of the assigned landing point. the marked landing sites must be at least eight (8) meters apart be aloof. The landing sites must always be clearly marked. The distance from the tip of the fuselage to the landing point is determined with a tape measure or a measuring cord. A landing field is determined by the organizer. Landings outside the landing field will result in no rating.

15.2.4 Competition flights The competitor is entitled to at least four (4) official flights. b) The competitor is entitled to an unlimited number of attempts during the frame time. Before starting over, the flight battery must be briefly disconnected from the controller to reset the logger. c) It is considered an official attempt if the model leaves the hand of the competitor or helper while the engine is running. d) In case of multiple attempts, the result of the last flight is the official result. e) The race director has the right to interrupt the race and to convert the landing points. He can interrupt the competition or cancel it completely if the weather conditions are no longer reasonable for the models.

15.2.5 Repeated flights The participant is entitled to a new performance time if: (a) his model collides in flight with another flying or starting model, (b) his flight was hindered or terminated by an event beyond his control. To claim his repetition of the flight for the reasons stated above, the competitor must ensure that the Official Timekeeper or the Director has noticed the obstacle and land his model as soon as possible. If the competitor continues his flight after the handicap, he is considered to waive his right to a new transit time.

 

15.2.6 Start The start is after the start of the frame time with the engine running. In the case of constructions which do not allow a safe start with the engine running (eg wing-powered airplanes with tail engine), the engine must be started as soon as possible after take-off. The time then starts when the engine is turned on.

• •

The motor running time (30 sec) and the start altitude (90m) are limited by a suitable logger (eg Altis V4). The settings of the logger will be checked by the organizer before the race • The organizer can check the logger at any time after a flight. If the settings differ from the specifications, the flight will be rated ZERO. Nations a) Each competitor is assigned his / her own landing point for his / her competition flight. He / she is responsible for using the correct landing point. b) During the landing process, only the pilot and his assistant must be within approximately ten (10) meters of the landing point. Other helpers and official timekeepers keep their distance. c) After landing, the pilots may collect their models within the frame time, provided that other participants in the group and their models are not hindered. The models must not be touched by the competitor or his assistants after the landing to be assessed until the organiser's official jury has carried out the distance measurement, otherwise the evaluation of the landing will be zero (see paragraph 15.2.8.2f). d) Plugging is not allowed. An unauthorized landing is when the end of the model's fuselage does not touch the ground after landing. Evaluation of flight performance and landing Evaluation of flight performance The timekeeping starts with the start of the model (flying wing see 15.2.6) with the engine running and ends a) with the standstill of the model b) at the end of the frame time Maximum flight time is (6:30) minutes (390 s) within a frame time of nine (9) minutes (540 s). If the pilot achieves more than (6:30) minutes (390 s) within the frame time, the overtime will be subtracted from the (6:30) minutes (390 s). • Flight time is recorded in seconds without rounding. • Two (2) points are awarded per second of flight time. • Flying in groups of 4 to 8 and raw points are “normalized” to per grand based on the group. Evaluation of the landing The distance from the tip of the hull to the marked landing point is measured after the model has come to a stop. Depending on the distance, the following points are awarded:

-----

Hope that helps

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What you have all been waiting for with bated breath :)

My first pass at a rules translation for F5-RES or E-RES (what shall we refer to it as....?)

There are 3 points that don't make sense - comments annotated. Would appreciate some knowledgeable input from the competition experts please.

 

Thanks

 

Martyn

F5-RES - ERES rules English Translation v0.1 Draft.pdf

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MK2.  The helper can advise about the air - normal helper/spotter role.

Google translate:-

“The participant may use up to two (2) helpers.  They are allowed to start and retrieve the model for him and inform him about the weather, flight and frame times while flying.”

 

MK3.  The CD can reorient the field if the wind direction changes too much.

Google translate:-

“The competition manager is entitled to interrupt the competition and to rebuild the landing points if the wind direction deviates too much or if there is even a tailwind.  He can cancel the competition entirely if there is wind of more than six (6) meters / seconds, measured at the start line at two (2) meters above ground, for a period of at least one (1) minute.”

 

MK4.  It says “percentage” so it's using 100% as the top preliminary round score and adding a bit for the fly-off.  The overall result ranks the fly-off participants in their fly-off order followed by the non- fly-off participants in the preliminary rounds order.

The extra points must be used for working out a league I assume.

Google translate:-

“Final scoring
The final ranking of the competition is determined by the ranking of the final rounds for the participants in the “Fly-Off” and for the remaining participants by the ranking of the preliminary rounds.
 If the final round cannot be flown, the ranking of the flown preliminary rounds is the final score of the entire competition.
 The winner of the fly-off receives an additional 3 bonus points, the second 2, the third 1.5, the fourth 1 and the fifth 0.5 added to his percentage result of the preliminary round;  for all other participants the percentage result of the preliminary rounds counts.”

 

 

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Observations.

We aren't told how to decide how many competitors get to fly off.  Fly-off points go down to 5th.

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On the fly-off points system, by way of explanation, here's what we do in our F3K league - from the BMFA rules:-

7.5.2.5 League Competition Scoring
(a) Only completed league contests as above shall be scored.
(b) A competitor’s competition score will be determined by the rules as defined in section 5.7.10.1 of the official FAI Rules.
(c) A competitor’s league competition score is to be calculated as follows:


The highest placed competitor, before any fly-off, is awarded 100 league points and the other league qualifiers scores use the formula below:
Competitor's league score = Competitor's competition score x 100 / Winner's competition score


(d) In addition to a competitor’s competition score, if a valid fly off is held at a contest.

Fly-off competitors will have extra points added to their pre fly-off scores as follows:
The fly-off winner gains an extra 4 points, second 3 points, third 2 points, fourth 1 point and fifth 0.5 point. Thus a competitor coming fourth pre fly-off with a Percentage contest score of 98% who then wins the fly-off will increase his/her league score by 4 points giving a final total score for that league competition of 102% points.
If no flyoff is held at a competition, then only the main competition score will be used for each competitor.

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Thanks for the responses Mike. Sorry I have been a bit tardy responding today. 2 yo Granddaughter care day.  Far more stressful and demanding than paid work

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12 hours ago, mikef said:

MK3.  The CD can reorient the field if the wind direction changes too much.

Google translate:-

“The competition manager is entitled to interrupt the competition and to rebuild the landing points if the wind direction deviates too much or if there is even a tailwind.

Thanks for this Mike.  I am still a bit confused about 'rebuild the landing points'  Understand "reorient the field" although which is what I expected. I assume that reorientation would take place after a round has completed (is that correct?), not during the round, unless of course the round is abandoned. I therefore assume that "rebuild the landing points" has nothing to do with scores but simply to change the position of the landing markers to align at 90 degrees to the prevailing wind direction.

 

Is that correct?

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15.2.6 Competition area The race must be based on the b) The start is within two (2) meters of the assigned landing point. the marked landing sites must be at least eight (8) meters apart be aloof. The landing sites must always be clearly marked.

 

The motor running time (30 sec) and the start altitude (90m) are limited by a suitable logger (eg Altis V4). The settings of the logger will be checked by the organizer before the race • The organizer can check the logger at any time after a flight. If the settings differ from the specifications, the flight will be rated ZERO. Nations a) Each competitor is assigned his / her own landing point for his / her competition flight. He / she is responsible for using the correct landing point. b) During the landing process, only the pilot and his assistant must be within approximately ten (10) meters of the landing point. Other helpers and official timekeepers keep their distance.

 

If the landing points are to be 8m apart and the launch is within 2m of those landing points, then the pilots are 8m apart. There would then be no point in moving. If the distance during the landing phase “has” to be approximately 10m – someone is breaking the rules, just by standing at their own landing spot, more so if their assistant is stood besides them.

I do not follow the 10m rule, a distance of 6m is a reasonable distance when behind the line of landing points. It would be reasonable to be 10m away in front of that line.

 

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