f5-res F5-RES Rules discussion

[mikef 722]

Well spotted.

 

[martynk 321]

.. 

44 minutes ago, AnthonyB said:

do not follow the 10m rule, a distance of 6m is a reasonable distance when behind the line of landing points. It would be reasonable to be 10m away in front of that line.

I had spotted that as well. I couldn't understand it either.  I suspect a typo. I would have thought 5m away from your own and competitors landing spots would be more sensible

[martynk 321]

I have had a response back from our Dutch friends. The additional points awarded at the flyoff are indeed for the use of the German league and not standard through Europe. 

[John Minchell 58]

Slightly off the rules topic have you seen this world wide "postal" competition - https://www.f3res.nl/f3res-wedstrijdkalender/vcr/?fbclid=IwAR2QB-P2OtrBx_DobQeNefLW1Z7vZ0qyJPeAKOCUCXZB9niyR1yErZSZwus

I think their use of points for landing = F3J needs more explanation too.

John M

[martynk 321]

Here is v0.2 of the Anglicised rules:

Major change summary:

Removal of scoring for league

Qualification of pilots for the Fly-Off

Additional rule stating that if motor is restarted flight scores Zero

Renumbered

Distance from Start to Landing for timekeepers and helpers is now 5m. This still doesn't make sense to me as the start line and landing spots are only 2m apart.

Plus MIke's comments above

F5-RES - ERES rules English Translation v0.2 Draft.pdf

[AnthonyB 29]

Distance from Start to Landing for timekeepers and helpers is now 5m. This still doesn't make sense to me as the start line and landing spots are only 2m apart.

It is 5m from other competitors landing spot - not your own.

2m from your own is fine. This should be about people standing in the way of anothers landing. I was once very rude to Lord McAlpine because he would not clear my landing zone.

[martynk 321]

Thanks Anthony

I may reword that to make it clearer to numpties like me 

 

[mikef 722]

2 hours ago, AnthonyB said:

.......as the start line and landing spots are only 2m apart.

I don't think there is a 'start line' marked in these rules, although it is referred to, it doesn't ever say where it is.  You just need to launch within 2m of your landing spot.  I think this is left over from the F3-RES rules that this set started from - so I'd look there and see it it's needed in F5-RES.

[martynk 321]

Thanks Mike

I'll have another read of the translation. I may have got it wrong. 

It would be so much better if CIAM adopted these rules. Always a risk that we could diverge too far

[mikef 722]

My bet is it's not the translation, it's a mistake in adapting the F3-RES rules to the F5 version.

[AnthonyB 29]

There is a line connecting the “centre of landing circle” spaced 8m apart.

There should be no reason to walk beyond that line until after the round is over.

You should also not be allowed within 5m of another competitor until the round is over.

Hence, you can do whatever you want provided you do NOT go beyond the line connecting the landing spots and within your own space – but no other competitor's (5m) space.

As the limit to scoring a landing is 15m, there also has to be an area extending 15m to the rear of the spot.

Most proficient pilots should (at least) be able to keep their flight path to within 5m either side of the spot.

This leaves a corridor 6m wide behind the line, where they must remain until the end of the round.

For safety, pilots should be asked to stay within their 6m corridor, facing forward. It would be interesting to place less experienced pilots on the ends, or where there is a gap in contestants. (I always preferred an end – less distraction in the “hot” last 30secs.)

[mikef 722]

AnthonyB, I think you are assuming some F5J thinking here which is not written in these rules ( yet, but might be needed ).

I would certainly want to be upwind of the spot when I landed.  You can't tell pilots to face 'forward' during their flight - they can fly anywhere.

Terms like 'beyond the line', 'behind the line' and 'corridor' are not defined in these rules.  As written, you can launch anywhere within 2m metres of your landing spot.

Perhaps a reading of the F3-RES rules might help to understand what's intended.

[AnthonyB 29]

"I would certainly want to be upwind of the spot when I landed.  You can't tell pilots to face 'forward' during their flight - they can fly anywhere."

When I read your reply, I could see what I missed off the sketch. The sketch is of the launch phase and at some point during the round you go to the other side of the line and face down wind. Obviously they can fly anywhere, clumsily saying "forward," where it should say forward in the direction of the planes coming into land. (Just a small safety thing)

I wasn't thinking F5J, I was thinking Electroslot and back to some problems that happened.

If the rules just mean "within 2m" then just change my wind arrow the other way for after the launch phase.

So essentially 8m landing spot space. Launch within 2m of spot and not go within 5m of other landing spots......... No movement until end of round, other than retrieving model for another try.

 

[martynk 321]

That's a very succinct explanation Anthony. I think Mike will be happy with that as well. I may steal your image if that is OK.. 

[AnthonyB 29]

nao problemo (well you keep doing this in foreign)

[AnthonyB 29]

ALES was 10min (600sec) from 200m..... sink rate – 0.33m/sec. (ignoring 30sec climb)

Ales postal (2m) was 8mins (480sec) from 175m..... sink rate – 0.36m/sec (ignoring 30sec climb)

This REF is 6.5min (390sec) from 90m ….. sink rate 0.23m/sec (ignoring 30sec climb)

For the first 2, I don't have a model that will do the time in totally flat still air. I can get within about 60sec, but I need something extra to make the time.

I would say (at best) my 2m models will do 0.4m/sec. So from 90m that would give 225sec or 3:45.

For someone that has read the rules and decides to try doing it (at home), and keeps coming up with sub-4min times – do they give up ?

At the Fairground, you have 3 ping-pong balls and have to get one in a goldfish bowl, and win a goldfish – how hard can that be ?

Hundreds have a go and 1 in 50 get one ….. Brilliant con, and human nature.

Here is my 4m Ava in really good still air last week. That was a really good sink rate of 0.29m/sec. The glide was 5:10 plus motor climb (say 25sec) – That's 5:35 and I would have lost a few secs using brake into spot.

It would have done the 10min slot from 175m though.

Because of the string launch rules, are we starting a bit low ?

Is this an entry class or a diversion for talented F5J pilots ?

I will just run through the “postal” 2m from 175m and 8min slot. (Oct)

7:20 4:02 7:04 6:14 6:12 8:02 5:08 6:51 4:27 8:00 6:54 5:36 6:38 4:44 8:01. Again, that was from 175m – TWICE the height.

[martynk 321]

I have to admit that I thought 90m was a bit low. I would have thought 120m would have given a bit of wiggle room and still make 6:30 a challenge. Alternatively. 90m and 5mins would be a better option as this would place lower demands on the power train. 

However, to counter that, there is a good reason to keep instep with the rest of the world simply because that is what they currently do nd it works. 

 

[AnthonyB 29]

And there is a huge following in the low countries and a *******  following here !

[martynk 321]

True.....

[martynk 321]

Does anyone have any strong views on whether the class name should be F5-RES or ERES? If ERES then perhaps F3-RES should be BRES

 I would like to be consistent in the documentation..