F3L and F5-RES combined 14 day challenge rules for 2022

[martynk]

Hi all

A discussion on the challenge rules for the 2022 F3L and F5-RES combined postal.

The start point is that we stay the same as last year. I think it worked well but if you want to tweak it then please make suggestions.

I think the start rules (10m Bungee and 50m line along with the 20 second motor run and 60m height limiter) worked well. We all know that you only have a few moments to find lift or you are stuffed so any slight disparity in height doesn't seem to be a huge issue.

Some clarification points..

Scores should be submitted within 24 hours of the flight.

F5-RES timed scores must start directly from a hand launch with a single climb up to 60m. That stops any cruising around looking for lift then zooming up to 60m to start the scoring flight.

The altitude  cut off limit for F5-RES is 60m. If you can gain any height from the launch speed that is perfectly legitimate. So go for the big bunt if you can generate the momentum.

Do we want to run the league with all events included or go for a Top x  of flights. If so how bix is x?

Do we want to include a max flight duration and simple landing bonus. i.e. Max 10 minutes with 1 point deduction for each second over ot under the 600 point max plus a landing penalty of. 10 points for each 10m you land away from your target up to a maximum of 50m. Relies on honesty and a British standard 1m pace which we all have. That could be a 50 point bonus dreducing by 10 points down to 0 to be added to the flight score.

Do we want multiple flights (say 3) and the top 3 submitted (on a single day) count towards the challenge score.

Should we run the challenge monthly instead of a rolling 14 days. Each challenge opens on the 1st and closes on the final day. 12 Challenges per year.

Do we want to run something completely different?

Happy to run almost anything the majority wants, please  let me know. We have 2 weeks to think about it.

Best wishes

 

 

[cirrusRC]

Martyn, thanks for running these comps and your diligence.

Personally I'm happy with the current format.  But I guess if more people are interested in competition then perhaps we should fly closer to comp rules.  That said, our low launches are very much different from F3L comp launches.

--Edit-- just saw your post on the other thread ref best 7 rounds.  Bit torn on that one, one rewards consistency and availability, the other rewards results and might be friendlier to late comers.

I'll go with the flow.

[Graham Lorimer]

Martyn

 

My thoughts......

 

I think the start rules (10m Bungee and 50m line along with the 20 second motor run and 60m height limiter) worked well. We all know that you only have a few moments to find lift or you are stuffed so any slight disparity in height doesn't seem to be a huge issue.

Agree totally!

 

Scores should be submitted within 24 hours of the flight.

Yes!

 

F5-RES timed scores must start directly from a hand launch with a single climb up to 60m. That stops any cruising around looking for lift then zooming up to 60m to start the scoring flight.

Yes!

 

The altitude  cut off limit for F5-RES is 60m. If you can gain any height from the launch speed that is perfectly legitimate. So go for the big bunt if you can generate the momentum.

Yes!

 

Do we want to run the league with all events included or go for a Top x  of flights. If so how bix is x?

All events included.

 

Do we want to include a max flight duration and simple landing bonus. i.e. Max 10 minutes with 1 point deduction for each second over ot under the 600 point max plus a landing penalty of. 10 points for each 10m you land away from your target up to a maximum of 50m. Relies on honesty and a British standard 1m pace which we all have. That could be a 50 point bonus dreducing by 10 points down to 0 to be added to the flight score.

No!

 

Do we want multiple flights (say 3) and the top 3 submitted (on a single day) count towards the challenge score.

Not sure! Probably not.

 

Should we run the challenge monthly instead of a rolling 14 days. Each challenge opens on the 1st and closes on the final day. 12 Challenges per year.

Yes 100%

Graham

[martynk]

Thanks Graham

Certainly having a monthly challenge would ease the admin burden.. Having a deadline may focus minds as well..

What do others think..?

[cirrusRC]

The only downside I can think of to monthly, is if someone does a monster flight on the 1st, people's motivation is a bit dampened until following month.

[Graham Lorimer]

4 hours ago, cirrusRC said:

The only downside I can think of to monthly, is if someone does a monster flight on the 1st, people's motivation is a bit dampened until following month.

In order to keep others interested then Cirrus, why don't you only fly on the last two days of every month, give us all a chance.

 

Happy Christmas!

 

GL

[GuyB]

I haven’t flown much this year but happy to go with the majority. I agree re 1 month timing.  I fly for fun and post a time as a secondary motivation so no issue for me seeing a long flight time early in the month.  
 

Thanks for continuing to organise Martyn. 
 

Happy Christmas. Guy. 

[Brian Taylor]

Hi, more than happy to go for the monthly timing.  The idea of a set number of flights, a max flight time with overfly penalty and a simple landing bonus harks back to the BARCS 100s postal events which worked well and was very popular. In those comps you needed a second person to “ countersign” your submitted score.

I am happy to go with the majority but the current rules give  a nice “ low key” comp and it would be a shame if it became overcomplicated and heavily rule bound. I do like the idea of the max flight time and deductions, my neck wont do longer  than 30mins! 

I didnt manage much stick time this year but hoping for more outings next year.

Have a great Xmas and thanks for organising these comps.

Brian

 

 

[AnthonyB]

Martyn, you are doing a rehash of the eSoaring rules, which is a good set of rules for a comp.

*Part of this was to send in a copy of your actual flight log for verification.

If you are not careful it just becomes a 2/3 man tussle and everyone else falls by the wayside. Because of that I have twice stopped doing it.

 

 

I fly 2 or 3 times per week and at the moment. Having 3 planes set to 60m is fine. I have never done 60m starts so it is a new challenge. I just put in the best of a session's results.

The eSoaring rules were 3 consecutive flights, (2m) 8min slots and a measured landing. At the time, I started by doing them at the local club, but 3 consecutive flights means that you need about 45mins of concentration and if something happens, it is ruined. So I did them at home, without distractions.

 

As this is / has been, it is far more inclusive than the eSoaring comp could ever be. You are either doing it for the best pilots or you are doing it to introduce as many as possible into this class.

I could (as is) go to the local club, fly my plane, pick the best flight and enter it. (By the way) If you are flying in a power club, the club rules are completely different from a glider club – Safety / landing / walking about on runway.

 

If the aim of this is to get as many as possible doing it – your doing a great job.

It should NOT be for the best pilots, it should be for the “others” …....... Who don't necessarily voice their opinion.

[Paul Wellacott]

23 hours ago, Graham Lorimer said:

Martyn

 

My thoughts......

 

I think the start rules (10m Bungee and 50m line along with the 20 second motor run and 60m height limiter) worked well. We all know that you only have a few moments to find lift or you are stuffed so any slight disparity in height doesn't seem to be a huge issue.

Agree totally!

 

Scores should be submitted within 24 hours of the flight.

Yes!

 

F5-RES timed scores must start directly from a hand launch with a single climb up to 60m. That stops any cruising around looking for lift then zooming up to 60m to start the scoring flight.

Yes!

 

The altitude  cut off limit for F5-RES is 60m. If you can gain any height from the launch speed that is perfectly legitimate. So go for the big bunt if you can generate the momentum.

Yes!

 

Do we want to run the league with all events included or go for a Top x  of flights. If so how bix is x?

All events included.

 

Do we want to include a max flight duration and simple landing bonus. i.e. Max 10 minutes with 1 point deduction for each second over ot under the 600 point max plus a landing penalty of. 10 points for each 10m you land away from your target up to a maximum of 50m. Relies on honesty and a British standard 1m pace which we all have. That could be a 50 point bonus dreducing by 10 points down to 0 to be added to the flight score.

No!

 

Do we want multiple flights (say 3) and the top 3 submitted (on a single day) count towards the challenge score.

Not sure! Probably not.

 

Should we run the challenge monthly instead of a rolling 14 days. Each challenge opens on the 1st and closes on the final day. 12 Challenges per year.

Yes 100%

Graham

I’m in agreement with Graham, good format works well, and move to monthly.

I only really got to fly on a Saturday so I need some options if the weather is poor 

[Nick Chitty]

As a new boy to Res could someone explain why we are using 10 metres rubber but it appears Ciam and Fai quote 15 metre bungee and 100 metre line

         Kind Regards Nick

[Graham Lorimer]

I think that was decided on so people can fly in limited spaces without laying out a long bungee, I believe it gives a 60 - 70 meter launch height, depending on the breeze.

But space required was the reason for the length.

 

Graham,

[martynk]

That's exactly the reason. It was to allow smaller field flying.

[Brian Taylor]

Nice, uncomplicated and enjoyable to fly competition so my vote would be for 12  x monthly comps and keep the rest of the rules as they are.

Brian

[Andy Sephton]

I like the idea of a monthly comp .... and using three flights is also good.  So why not count the best three flights on different days in a month.  This should prevent someone running away with the competition at the beginning of the month.

I don't support the landing bonus but the rest looks fine.

Thanks for the chance to comment Martyn!

[Graham Lorimer]

39 minutes ago, Andy Sephton said:

I like the idea of a monthly comp .... and using three flights is also good.  So why not count the best three flights on different days in a month.  This should prevent someone running away with the competition at the beginning of the month.

I don't support the landing bonus but the rest looks fine.

Thanks for the chance to comment Martyn!

Hi Andy,

The main issue with that suggestion may be that a lot of flyers might not be able to get out three times in a month. I only fly 2 meter when the weather is conducive, ie windspeed up to about 6 mph, any more and I don't think 2 meter is enjoyable, just my opinion. It is not uncommon for there to only be one or two days suitable in a month.

 

Graham

[Paul Wellacott]

I kind of agree with Graham, but only because I don’t get as much time to fly, but I wouldn’t want to stand in the way of a popular change.

and , I’d also like to thank Martyn for the work he puts in. In fact there’s a few on here that deserve thanks for pushing the F3res forwards

[Justin Mellor]

I'm hoping that you don't change too much - I am building a Purito E, hope to take on Graham at our club! I only get to fly during the day when I take some time off work - it doesn't happen that often, so very little chance of me having three good flights. I am just hoping I get lucky occasionally

I do like the simplicity of this format.

Justin

[StraightEdge]

Aside from the frequency change, I'd keep it exactly as before - simple and proven!

Re moving to calendar months, I'm quite relaxed about this.  If someone who is quite expert (and lucky with the weather and their availability) scores a blinder within the first few days, that isn't going to put me off getting out there whenever possible for the remainder of the month to do my own best and for the pure enjoyment of it all... maybe one day I'll even come third! 

Jon

[Pete in Northiam]

First a BIG thank you @martynk for keeping this going and my apologies to all for being AWOL from the postal half the year.  I discovered through research and testing that the club field I'd been using, on Pevensey Levels, is most often completely devoid of thermals because too close to the coast.  Then I had that awful day in Shropshire...  I hope for 2022 to join a more inland club (Invicta in Kent) so should get more times in, and to have at least two F3-RES's ready.

Anyway, on the proposed rules for next year:

- I think one "best of day" score per day should be recorded from as many attempts as anyone can fit into a day.  

- I'm happy with 14 day or monthly challenges (same points that @StraightEdge made) but I'd sooner keep one "best of challenge" than best three each challenge (as @Graham Lorimersaid). 

- That said, I wonder if 14-day challenges in the warmer/drier six months (April-September?) and monthly in the cooler/damper months might work better?  Probably more complicated than needed!

- Otherwise, keep it simple as before: no max, no landing bonus etc (landing back in the same field is enough of a test at times!)

Best season's wishes!  --Pete