Slope Flying at St Agnes Head.

[f3fisa]

It appears that all slope flying is banned on St Agnes Head from March to September according to a letter published from Natural England.

I think it is because of nesting birds. I hope someone with more knowledge on the forum will elaborate.

It's annoying as I was hoping to fly there in the summer.

David.

[oipigface]

That’s rather different timing from the restriction on Lundy, which I think is February to July, but can be varied if the birds are early or late. St Agnes is different from Lundy, of course, in that the warden is always there, can be asked where flying is and is not permitted, and in my experience is reasonable and flexible. Is there a warden at St Agnes?

[Andy_B]

It seems to be banned completely currently until a licence is granted for the period of October to February 

[Bear]

Letter from the Park Ranger,

am writing to inform you of a change in your license agreement for hang gliding and paragliding at Wheal Coates and St Agnes Head. We have been liaising with Natural England about various SSSI issues in our area and in doing so they have informed us that we as The National Trust can no longer issue licenses to organisations or individuals that might affect the SSSI without first applying for consent. This change will also affect other user groups such as non-powered model aircraft flying and rock climbing. In our discussions with Natural England, there have been concerns about the impact flying may have on the breeding bird assemblage, a key feature of the SSSI designation. We have spoken previously about disturbance related issues for birds at Wheal Coates and have appreciated your approach in ceasing flying during periods where schedule 1 species have been breeding. Natural England have confirmed that the breeding bird assemblage covers breeding clifftop and seabird species within the Godrevy to St Agnes SSSI. They have informed us that in their opinion, flying hang gliders and paragliders, taking off and landing on the SSSI during the breeding season from March through to September would disturb breeding bird species that are a feature of the SSSI and as such it is unlikely that they would provide SSSI consent for this activity. They have also informed us that it is an offence to disturb nesting birds under the Wildlife and Countryside Act. We have a legal responsibility to manage our land within the SSSI and a responsibility as the National Trust to protect and care for places so that people and nature can thrive. The National Trust therefore support Natural England’s approach during this key period for bird species. Natural England have said that they would consider an application to fly outside of the bird breeding season from October through to February inclusive on the advice that we consider the potential impact of the activity on Grey Seal (also a notified feature of the SSSI) in any proposals made for consent, ensuring also that there is a plan in place for all necessary measures to safeguard against disturbance of Grey Seal with appropriate oversight and accountability, supported by a robust monitoring plan. This can be looked into with a view to submitting a consent application from October 2022 through to February 2023 for their consideration if you so wish. In addition to these asks, Natural England have requested that we put a monitoring programme in place to assess disturbance impacts and the condition of the breeding bird assemblages to do due diligence in our responsibility in managing the SSSI. Any future application for the winter months will also be under condition that these criteria remain favourable. We understand that this represents a significant change for your group in their use of Wheal Coates and St Agnes Head but we must be clear that from this date February 7th 2022 you are no longer permitted to fly any hang gliders or paragliders within the Godrevy to St Agnes SSSI. Can you please inform all your members of this change as soon as possible as anyone flying from this date will be in breach of Natural England’s SSSI regulations which can amount to a criminal offence and a fine under the Wildlife and Countryside Act. Attached are a copy of the Godrevy to St Agnes SSSI citation and maps of the SSSI for further information. If you have any questions my contact details are below. Thanks,

So 40 years of model flying ended at St Agnes because of opinion, with no evidence or consultation.

[MikeE]

Well earlier today I was talking with the wife about going to Cornwall this year.

The Cornish Tourism Board may be interested to know that tourist numbers are now declining.

Well by 2 anyway.

Not yet endangered but in need of careful monitoring.   (Perhaps) 

[Bear]

Have been searching the internet for information on the impact of non powered model aircraft on birds, interestingly I found this information request which Natural England were unable to answer, will therefor be sending a similar request to Natural England asking if they have carried out any studies and what the conclusions were.

 

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/708401/response/1697504/attach/3/Model Aircraft email.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

 

If anyone has experience of such requests any advice on the wording would be gratefully received

[Bear]

47 minutes ago, MikeE said:

Well earlier today I was talking with the wife about going to Cornwall this year.

The Cornish Tourism Board may be interested to know that tourist numbers are now declining.

Well by 2 anyway.

Not yet endangered but in need of careful monitoring.   (Perhaps) 

It may well be that we will be looking for information on the economic impact of this ban, there is a steady stream of flyers who visit us in the summer from this country and abroad. At least one gent takes a seasonal pitch every year at a local campsite then we have the BandBs and hotels used in the area. Not to mention the daily order at the local pasty shop!

[oipigface]

My own experience of bird behaviour when confronted with model aircraft is that the reaction of birds depends on the species. Some (e.g. seagulls) are clearly scared, but usually only if a plane is close by and flying directly towards them; others are indifferent (e.g. rooks and crows, red kites); others (e.g. peregrine falcons) seem to have their curiosity piqued and pursue the strange interloper until they are sure it poses no threat. MikeE once shot a video of one pursuing an Easy Glider of mine.

I think it is important to make clear to whoever it is you are negotiating with, Roger, that gliders are not noisy.

[Sloper]

2 hours ago, Bear said:

Letter from the Park Ranger,

They have informed us that in their opinion, flying hang gliders and paragliders, taking off and landing on the SSSI during the breeding season from March through to September would disturb breeding bird species that are a feature of the SSSI and as such it is unlikely that they would provide SSSI consent for this activity. They have also informed us that it is an offence to disturb nesting birds under the Wildlife and Countryside Act.

a ban as they have an opinion!?!

 

ah well theres always Perranporth

[Phil.Taylor]

Sounds like another case for the BMFA ?

Phil.

[MAZ]

The BMFA won’t do anything, or rather, what they will do will worsen the situation.
A similar case came about with a Leek & Moorlands site, the club approached the BMFA for help and if it had taken their advice the club would have lost the site. Instead, a friend of a friend who was a lawyer,  advised the club and we can still fly as if nothing happened.

The club has also had run-ins with NT/Nature Groups, so on these sites we tell them we are individuals not a club, therefore the authorities have to convey to each in person singularly, which takes too much time, and walk off.

 

[Bear]

So I have sent a freedom of information request to Natural England.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/impact_of_non_powered_model_glid

[mjcp]

3 hours ago, Bear said:

Have been searching the internet for information on the impact of non powered model aircraft on birds, interestingly I found this information request which Natural England were unable to answer, will therefor be sending a similar request to Natural England asking if they have carried out any studies and what the conclusions were.

 

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/708401/response/1697504/attach/3/Model Aircraft email.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

 

If anyone has experience of such requests any advice on the wording would be gratefully received

(and from the Ranger's post further up)

In both cases, it seems the onus is on someone other than Natural England to do the leg work and research it!  "supported by a robust monitoring plan" and "Natural England have requested that we put a monitoring programme in place to assess" etc etc. 

Feels frustratingly QUANGO-ish:  pseudo gov't org sets rules with no thought to wider impact and guided by opinion, not evidence, expects someone else to foot the bill for complying with "their rules".

We have had a similar problem at my local flying site where there are heathland fires most years (BBQs / cigarettes / lightning etc).  but after a lipo fire recently (the 1st fire caused by model flying in 80+ years), all flying must stop.  A little harsh?  Not when you take into account a recent statement from a local wildlife org member that oversees it:  "Oh I thought we'd gotten rid of you lot (model fliers) last year".  Sometimes the deck is against us!

 

M

 

 

 

[Mikeb52]

Yes, when any of these organisations express “concerns”, my built in bullsh1t detector goes off!! 
Just look online for information about them. They really don’t seem to care that much about wildlife, just the money. 

[Les]

2 hours ago, MAZ said:

The BMFA won’t do anything, or rather, what they will do will worsen the situation.
A similar case came about with a Leek & Moorlands site, the club approached the BMFA for help and if it had taken their advice the club would have lost the site. Instead, a friend of a friend who was a lawyer,  advised the club and we can still fly as if nothing happened.

The club has also had run-ins with NT/Nature Groups, so on these sites we tell them we are individuals not a club, therefore the authorities have to convey to each in person singularly, which takes too much time, and walk off.

 

Agree with you about the BMFA on issues like this useless .

 

[oipigface]

Is there any news about the Dartmoor situation?

[Raymond Millington]

Any news on the St Agnes Head situation?

And where do you fly at Perranpoth?

Ray.

[barry h]

On 08/02/2022 at 15:18, Bear said:

It may well be that we will be looking for information on the economic impact of this ban, there is a steady stream of flyers who visit us in the summer from this country and abroad. At least one gent takes a seasonal pitch every year at a local campsite then we have the BandBs and hotels used in the area. Not to mention the daily order at the local pasty shop!

Hi Mr B or R.

I as you know my Condo ( caravan ) is in Porthtowan and I come down 3-4 times a year. To fly my models.  There are loads like me .  I drink and eat in the local pubs, Buy food from the local shops, Caravan parts, locally. Generally I end up spending locally approx £1,500 per 2 week period. This does include site fees etc. I always thought Cornwall depended on tourists . It appears the NT and SSSI do'nt really care about this, but I think the local retailers do. 

I think it would be better all round if the ban was from Godreve to Wheel Coats. As Aggy will be full of tourists trampling over the cliffs and letting their out of control dogs crap everywhere anyway weather we are there or not.  Ive never seen anyone flying between Wheel Coats and Godreve anyway. All we would be asking for is less than 1/10th at the far end of the banned area to fly that way leaving 9/10ths for the birds etc.  A fair compromise and nobody loses face.

[Bear]

On 12/02/2022 at 11:06, Raymond Millington said:

Any news on the St Agnes Head situation?

And where do you fly at Perranpoth?

Ray.

Things are happening Ray, been advised not to discuss on open forums to much, so for once I am doing what has been asked of me! 

[Raymond Millington]

Well said Barry H,i also have a caravan at Praa Sands,

Ray