New electric f3b class

[thermaldoctor]

Have been talking with Thomas Rossner on the phone from Servorahmen about new frames for new Kingmax servos. But... conversation came round to F3g. 

Just like F3b but with electric launch. Now powertrains have become easy and simple and relatively cheap and most manufacturers of f3f/f3b now supply a dedicated electric fuselage is there some mileage in this for UK too do you think? 

Apparently very popular in Germany but they are currently trying to finalise rules.

[Mark P]

Sounds good. Would be great to do some F3B style competitions if there is enough interest.

[satinet]

What are the rules?

 

For me if it involves super light, super expensive new models then no.

 

 

 

 

[Baldyslapnut]

It does Tom.

You will need a Device or similar.

 

Greg

[simon_t]

I loved F3B when I did it back in the ‘90s.  I’m sure that the electric version will have a following in Germany, but I think it is unlikely to take off in the UK.  Personally, if you want a similar challenge, involving duration, speed and distance, have a go at GPS triangle.  You can get a Sport class model (e.g. Chilli) going for similar money to electric F3B.  And GPS triangle allows you to practice on your own or with others, and you can fly against others in the on-line league anytime.  It is more challenging than F3B, and really pulls you in.  And (a bit like F3F fastest times, or F3B distance laps), you can fly against your own PBS.  GPS in the UK is teetering for viability due to limited numbers flying, but if more of the ex-F3B crowd gave it a go, they would probably find they were hooked, and we could then get a decent programme of events on for the year.

Simon

[Swalleau]

I too think F3B was a brilliant event.  It demands many skills from a pilot and a background of having flown F3B is a great primer for GPS racing.  I would be tempted by F3B with electric - but in reality I think it would suffer from relatively low take up in the UK.

As Simon says the airframe price for F3G is the same as or more than a GPS Sport Class plane, albeit not one of the very best.  The beauty of the 4.5 to 4.8 metre span planes for GPS is that they are incredibly versatile, although F3G/F3B/F3F planes have a high level of versatility too.

Once you've tried GPS Triangle Racing it is far more addictive and challenging than F3B.  After a really good GPS flight it is quite common for pilots to have a weak knees, a thousand yard stare and the shakes.  When you've put everything you have into the flight, made the 30 minutes and found more from your flying than you thought possible the personal reward is immense.  I also think the rate of flying per £$€ is way more with a GPS Sport plane than anything else.

As Simon has said the biggest advantage is that you can practice GPS really easily both on your own and in small groups.  All the course and timing is done in the kit so other than a field with enough space to launch and land you can be pretty self sufficient.

Iain

[Mark P]

On 24/07/2022 at 16:16, satinet said:

What are the rules?

 

For me if it involves super light, super expensive new models then no.

 

 

 

 

Plenty of us have F3B style gliders that we fly in F3F competitions

If all you need is an electric fuselage for an existing model and a powertrain it's got to be a cheaper option than a whole new GPS model.

I have several options I could fly.

Mark

[satinet]

20 hours ago, Baldyslapnut said:

It does Tom.

You will need a Device or similar.

 

Greg

Is that a serious comment?

I think my question is quite reasonable.  

[Baldyslapnut]

Yes it a serious comment.

To be competitive you will need a F5G version of a current F3F/F3B plane. The power requirements and the way the scoring works means most of the Europeans are flying Devices/Shintos etc. Martin is now producing his own wings again rather than sourcing them from Vladimir. Meaning the Device is possible to get. 

I would be interested in hearing from someone who flew F3B what planes would be competitive?

 

[Andy_B]

This is exactly why it won’t work and the same reason your struggling in GPS …it’s to expensive 

and tbh Gregg if some looked at your comment and realised it’s going to be £3k to get into it then it’s dead and buried 

 

just my 2c 

[wookman]

I can afford the 2c but the 3k is a zero out of my league!

[Baldyslapnut]

10 minutes ago, Andy_B said:

This is exactly why it won’t work and the same reason your struggling in GPS …it’s to expensive 

and tbh Gregg if some looked at your comment and realised it’s going to be £3k to get into it then it’s dead and buried 

 

just my 2c 

Who said we are struggling in GPS. 

[Andy_B]

5 minutes ago, Baldyslapnut said:

Who said we are struggling in GPS. 

S.  GPS in the UK is teetering for viability due tolimited numbers flying, but if more of the ex-F3B crowd gave it a go,
 

Simons words earlier 

[satinet]

41 minutes ago, Baldyslapnut said:

Yes it a serious comment.

To be competitive you will need a F5G version of a current F3F/F3B plane. The power requirements and the way the scoring works means most of the Europeans are flying Devices/Shintos etc. Martin is now producing his own wings again rather than sourcing them from Vladimir. Meaning the Device is possible to get. 

I would be interested in hearing from someone who flew F3B what planes would be competitive?

 

I don't know. Same planes that were good in f3b I guess.  Pike 2 and freestylers have been the most winning models for f3b over the last few WC cycles.  Both have electric fuselages.  Shinto has never been a top dog in F3b. Lot of people seem to fly the device I guess.  

 

Does it really matter though as long as your having fun.  

[Baldyslapnut]

I am not going to turn this into a GPS thread.

Some points on Simons comment.

Bernie has sold a good number of GPS rigs over the last few years.

If we look at the GPS Net League there are 14 UK pilots flying Sports Class and posting scores. 6 in Light Class. There is duplication in this. But that is two separate planes. So I am not sure where Simon's comments come from. Our only issues are:

A few people do all the work

Many people have kit and planes and fly GPS but will not compete or post scores. Probably the same for F3F

GPS planes sell quickly when secondhand. So there is market for the planes and a number of people are still coming on board.

We had 11 entries for Radioglide. Nats yet to be confirmed. 

If we look at most classes the problem is getting people to actually have a go in a comp. As Tom says having fun, making new mates, plus pushing the boundaries of their flying. All achieved with a suitable plane that does not have to be the latest rocket ship.

We have seen this in F3F where people have a go with a sports model or a well used and not current generation model and get hooked.

 

[wookman]

"We have seen this in F3F where people have a go with a sports model or a well used and not current generation model and get hooked"

That was me. McMeekin Falcon, Radical and Extreme all for little more than half a new Shinto kit. Am I going to win races? No. But two if not three of those planes are still quicker than I have managed to fly them yet. And yes I am having a lot of fun.

[thermaldoctor]

Okay read all the feedback and comments and very interesting thanks to all who have contributed.

Now thinking this! Doesn't need to be hardcore F class. Germans are arguing over rules at present and we don't need that crap.

Just thinking like minded people with suitable models interested in a flat field multi task event. Just like F3b. There would be speed, duration, and distance.

Can chop an f3f fuselage nose off and fit a motor or obtain a dedicated electric fuselage for same purpose. Also makes a great sorts model!

Could use a simple rule of airframe weight to equalise models...min weight for duration (so any electric orientated models need to be brought up to weight for duration, and then a max weight for speed/distance so lighter models not disadvanted in speed/distance) 

Would allow all models to compete equally.

And this is key...make it a fun fly-in type event. Any seasoned stay-away contest pilot knows the social side is as much or more important than the results side. You get more from flying and staying away with your mates than you do the flying.

So could make it a chosen nicer weather weekend where pilots all agree on and a fly-in type event where a pilot can nominate their best speed, distance, and duration flights from a selection of flights throughout the day/weekend. 

By definition that will be competitive..! But more importantly will be more relaxed and enjoyable. 

Please remember...just an idea. So many suitable models and good pilots out there and would be great to have a few informal get togethers with the goal of having fun and socialising and  wringing the very best out of the models.

 

 

 

 

 

[grj]

Neil

Without trying to sound confrontational why would someone interested in electric f3b want to fly a minority class outside of the international rules?

In it's day F3B was hugely popular (I didn't fly it myself but I monitored it's progress). But unfortunately it died off, despite the particular efforts of Clive Needham and others who pioneered electric launch. Indeed there's a whole BARCS thread back in 2015 but I'm not smart enough to be able to copy the link but just google Electric F3B and it'll come up.

Whilst I appreciate that the development of class rules can be exhaustive why not fly to the F5G rules with a UK variation which would make a wider range of models (older), competitive. That way anybody who wants to go international would learn the new rules and could then invest to compete. Or re-adopt what is already there, I'm sure there are several models languishing in lofts which are ready to.

Maybe I'm missing the point.

G

[MikeE]

I have two suitable models, give me a caravaning field a weekend 2 day event and some simple rules, and for me it has potential.

If people start coming along and the days start to get more competitive then the rules will develop accordingly.

But first let's just have a party 

[thermaldoctor]

51 minutes ago, MikeE said:

I have two suitable models, give me a caravaning field a weekend 2 day event and some simple rules, and for me it has potential.

If people start coming along and the days start to get more competitive then the rules will develop accordingly.

But first let's just have a party 

And that is exactly how I'm looking at it Mike.  Just fun and a weekend away wanging high performance airframes around with a nice mix of thermal soaring and speed. In good company and at a good venue and with a set of rules enough to enable an outcome but not so much as to cause any conflict and hassle. 

And yes...then see how things pans out.

 

Graham - not taken as confrontational at all mate. I know exactly where you are coming from but sometimes I think just think a nice set of common sense commonly agreed rules might make for a more fun time. And as Mike says if it is attracting more pilots let it develop accordingly.

For example....from what I hear in Germany people are feircly debating the  new f3g class and talking energy limitations like F5b, specialist models etc... 

I'm just thinking something like an Altis permanently set to 250m launch altitude, a minimum weight for duration of something like 3kg to allow all models to be at the same weight (guesstimate) and then something like 4kg for speed so no model or pilot is compromised due to weight. Or do it by wing loading...whatever.