Martin O Posted October 2, 2022 Posted October 2, 2022 Hi all Lawrence and myself have been evaluating how the first ever FxRES season has gone, we have since had several discussions, batted some ideas around, and even been out to a field to look at layouts and how we can improve things for the future. The first thing we want to say is that we are extremely grateful to BARCS and the BMFA for their help, and also to everyone else that has supported and competed along the way. There's lots of stuff that we think has gone well, the competitions attracted newcomers to soaring as well as top level pilots, the 4-hour window format seemed popular, we had some impressive and exciting fly-offs, FxRES had slots in Radioglide and the SF Nationals, we saw a variety of kit models, vintage ones and home brew jobs, f3l and f5res flying alongside each other seemed to work, and we had fun doing it. But as was inevitable for a first year, we, like some others that we have spoken to, saw some issues that have to be addressed. Without doubt the biggest one has been keeping the designated landing area safe, and application of the 30m out landing rule. There has also been some comments that a dedicated timer gives an unfair advantage to a competitor that wants to fly both classes (f3l/f5RES), we take the view that everyone has the same opportunity to bring a friend, but the jury is out on that one! We have some thoughts, but before firming up any new rules, we would like to put our ideas in public and ask for constructive feedback, especially from those that have competed. Please bear in mind that we don't think we should change too much too fast, and we would like to keep to the original objective. '7.24.1.2 Objective: (a) To provide an inexpensive class of radio-controlled model glider soaring with straightforward rules which emphasise pilot skills, to be promoted for wide scale adoption and enjoyment in the UK model flying community. (b) FX-RES competitions are intended for F3L and F5RES pilots to jointly compete alongside each other.' The safe landing area idea: (We have taken inspiration from a set up we saw used in a f3l competition in Turkey.) To stop models flying through or on the flight line we propose that we create a landing box that starts behind a 5m line that is downwind from the flight line. To emulate f3l rules, the landing area would then be designated by the CD on the day. In practice, we would probably set up another line, 30m downwind from the 5m line and close the sides to make a box that would correspond with the length of the flight line. We could mark the area out with football training cones and use a measuring wheel to set up (Which could also be used in a dispute!) We would also layout spots with 15m tapes (emulates f3l rules). Their use would predominately be for a fly-off, or full f3l comps, but could also help to designate the landing area. We are also trying to get hold of a PA system that would have auto announcements so that competitions would self-run, allowing a CD more time to keep tabs on everything, but that depends on funding. Finally, we were very conscious of the time that it took to do the scores at the end and we made some mistakes, so we are looking at how we can improve on that. We look forward to any feedback. 1
John Woolley Posted October 2, 2022 Posted October 2, 2022 Because of life issues, I didn't get to fly in any of the competitions this year, but did help timing in April at Buckminster. I did note several approaches to landing had to be from behind the flight line and even while timing I had to dodge one model at last minute. Space allowing, I think it would definitely be safer to have the landing box/zone to one side and clearly marked. It might mean pilots/timers need to walk from flight line across to it, but that is probably safer than having models approaching from down wind behind a line of pilots. Just my 2peneth. (PS big thanks to everyone for the experience, encouragement and I hope to be up and competing next year!) 2
Bbdave Posted October 2, 2022 Posted October 2, 2022 I'm hoping to pluck up the courage to attend some comps I have the glider built but unflown I don't have a bungee so have never launched from one and no idea how comps. work so as a rank begginer it's a daunting prospect to attend one. Dave 2
CTR Posted October 2, 2022 Posted October 2, 2022 Hi Martin & Lawrence, First, thanks for the effort you’ve both contributed to the comp’s (although I’ve only attended two, one competing and one timing). I like the idea of a landing zone down-wind of the flight line but there some details needed: 1/ do the pilots have to remain on the flight line? 2/ can landings be anywhere in the box irrespective of the position of the pilot? 3/ how about designated spacing markers along the flight line to avoid the ‘bunching of pilots’ that happened on occasions at the nationals? 4/ as for scoring; maybe chat with Neil Harrison (F3K) where we have a flight entry system via smartphone. Should be possible to modify one of the F3K tasks to score best 6 of 10. Keep up the good work. Neil P 1
Lawrence D Posted October 2, 2022 Posted October 2, 2022 4 hours ago, Bbdave said: I'm hoping to pluck up the courage to attend some comps I have the glider built but unflown I don't have a bungee so have never launched from one and no idea how comps. work so as a rank begginer it's a daunting prospect to attend one. Dave Hi Dave- Completely understand the anxiety over turning up at an event to compete for the first time, but its worth powering through and have a go. Unless the weather is rubbish I suggest you will really enjoy the day, you'll get a lot of support, encouragement and everyone will celebrate your first max! Lawrence 3
John Minchell Posted October 3, 2022 Posted October 3, 2022 Martin /Lawrence I agree in principal to all your proposals above, based upon improving safety. But I do have an issue with the dedicated timer point. Not everyone does have the opportunity to bring another person who will purely time for them (and not compete). A dedicated timer allows long waits for the best air before launching and still manage to get 20 flights in when competing in both bungee launch and electric launch classes. My suggestion would be to start earlier say at 10am and run for 5 hours but still finish at 3.00pm. The extra hour would at least allow 2x 6 flights, maybe even 2x 10 while still alternately flying and timing for another pilot. So at least a full set of scores in both classes could be achieved. At Radioglide there were 4 or 5 times when I was timing 3 pilots at the same time (Martyn Kinder, Kevin Wallace and Andy Sephton) when they all went up in the best air and I knew I couldn't. The extra hour on the day is not onerous and would allow more competitive flying per event for those with models for both classes. If the above extra hour is not acceptable, then I nominate either one of you to be my dedicated timer for next season (so you can't fly) and I can fly both classes! Lets see how that works out eh? John M 2
cirrusRC Posted October 3, 2022 Posted October 3, 2022 To be competitive at both classes, a dedicated timer is not an advantage, it's a necessity. There simply is not enough time to fly both classes if sharing a timer. Even with a dedicated timer, the day is full on. You still don't have a great deal of time to wait for lift and quite often end up launching just to complete your flights. Also if conditions worsen through the day you are at more of a disadvantage. The current format isn't exactly fair to anyone. Timing for someone, the air might be perfect, but when you fly the air is rubbish. The current format is very simple, accessible to beginners and friendly. If you want to make it more competitive and fairer for those complaining. Options A) combine the classes into one scoring league. B) extend time of window by 1-2 hours C) reduce maxes to 4-5, which will also get more into the fly off. D) Add a landing bonus to all flights to encourage people to land within box (I appreciate for beginners this might present more issues) For the landing box, will there be a penalty for overflying and landing in the launch area? Can we have a rule that says you must always launch up wind of tape, rather than launching behind to directly chase lift (for safety). Only applies to powered models. What are the long-term plans for this class, will we slowly migrate to full F3L style rules? Can we have atleast 1 comp using these rules? Surely that must be the aim? Thank you Martin and Lawrence for all that you do running this league. 3
Lawrence D Posted October 3, 2022 Posted October 3, 2022 36 minutes ago, cirrusRC said: To be competitive at both classes, a dedicated timer is not an advantage, it's a necessity. There simply is not enough time to fly both classes if sharing a timer. Even with a dedicated timer, the day is full on. You still don't have a great deal of time to wait for lift and quite often end up launching just to complete your flights. Also if conditions worsen through the day you are at more of a disadvantage. The current format isn't exactly fair to anyone. Timing for someone, the air might be perfect, but when you fly the air is rubbish. The current format is very simple, accessible to beginners and friendly. If you want to make it more competitive and fairer for those complaining. Options A) combine the classes into one scoring league. B) extend time of window by 1-2 hours C) reduce maxes to 4-5, which will also get more into the fly off. D) Add a landing bonus to all flights to encourage people to land within box (I appreciate for beginners this might present more issues) For the landing box, will there be a penalty for overflying and landing in the launch area? Can we have a rule that says you must always launch up wind of tape, rather than launching behind to directly chase lift (for safety). Only applies to powered models. What are the long-term plans for this class, will we slowly migrate to full F3L style rules? Can we have atleast 1 comp using these rules? Surely that must be the aim? Thank you Martin and Lawrence for all that you do running this league. Hi David Thanks. We are hoping to run at least 1 full F3L rules event next year. Lawrence 2
Bob Goodenough Posted October 6, 2022 Posted October 6, 2022 Lawrence and Martin, you have done a fabulous job organising our competitions - so thank you! All your suggestions seem very sensible but I would worry about a dedicated timer. I’m the only RES flyer in my little club and couldn’t rely on a club mate to come to competitions with me to time. Neil Tricker and I tend to time for each other but because we are both competing we can’t do it every time. I think it might be too restrictive if we had to depend on a dedicated timer. Looking forward to next season. Bob
Josh Posted October 13, 2022 Posted October 13, 2022 Hi Lawrence, On the side of running full f3l comps would these be f3/5l? or pure f3 just so I can prepare to build a full glider fuz Aswell? in regard to landings why not bring landing tapes into it and add a landing bonus to give a bit more edge but still keep the working window rather than committing to slots? cheers josh
Pete in Northiam Posted October 18, 2022 Posted October 18, 2022 On 02/10/2022 at 13:33, Bbdave said: I'm hoping to pluck up the courage to attend some comps I have the glider built but unflown I don't have a bungee so have never launched from one and no idea how comps. work so as a rank begginer it's a daunting prospect to attend one. Dave Bungee launching is pretty easy (once you have one!). The elastic energy in the bungee translates to height and even a little wind lets you "kite" even more height just with a little steering. The glider does most of the work - as indeed I proved last year with a perfect launch with the rx switched off! There's a thread on making short-field bungees here on BARCS https://www.barcs.co.uk/forums/topic/9263-f3-res-league-bungees/ These comprise 10m of tubing with 50m of fixed line and cost about £40 in materials (less if you use latex tubing) and a few hours to make. They are shorter and less powerful than a full F3L/FxRES bungee (eg this one from Hyperflight) but great for learning (and entering the 2m Challenge Postal comp!). This video of bungee flying at my local club isn't a contest and the bungees are longer than F3L/FxRES but it's the same action. 1
Pete in Northiam Posted October 18, 2022 Posted October 18, 2022 I think others have said much of what I can add - except to heap more thanks on Martin and Lawrence! The one point I most agree needs work is how we time each other. I feel it's important this stays an individual, as opposed to team, sport at this level but if we can foster fair cooperation between contestants then all the better. So I wonder if we could draw lots at the start of the contest in order to work in fixed pairs (or the odd three) for the day? That would let each pair agree on sharing the working time, breaks, etc as well as (hopefully!) develop raport over the day while calling time and conditions for the pilot. I have to also agree on improving safe landings but there's a difference between FxRES and F3L to remember: F3L flies in slots. This means most pilots are facing the landing zone at the same time while in FxRES (at present) we have launchers facing one way and landers the other all the time. So separating launch and landing more (where we have space in the field) would be a great idea even if the pilot has to walk to the landing zone before finals. We have also (IMHO) been pretty poor at calling "Landing!" so I think some more emphasis in the briefing (for both pilots and timers) would help. Thanks again! --Pete
Martin O Posted October 21, 2022 Author Posted October 21, 2022 Many thanks to everyone for the feedback. I know Lawrence is working hard in the background with the SFTC to get everything in place. The message below from me is also on the FB group. 'Update on Fxres organisation: I've made a decision to step away from the part I have so far played in running FxRES. I want to reduce some stress in my life, concentrate on my family (have a disabled son), and the chairman role I have in my local flying club. Lawrence will continue to run things solo, but I will still help with a few things in the background and hopefully support most of the 2023 events. Lawrence isn't a FB user so he will be posting information about news and events on the BARCS FxRES forum. I will continue to maintain the website. My thanks to Lawrence for continuing to fly the FxRES flag, it's no small task!'
martynk Posted October 21, 2022 Posted October 21, 2022 Martin, many, many thanks for your efforts in this inaugural season. We would not have got to where we are today without you and Lawrence, so hats off to you both. It would be nice if a 'local' (to each of the flying fields) would step forward and offer to CD one of the events for 2023. I am happy to work with Lawrence and CD one (or possibly more) of the Shrewsbury events if required, Remember, CDs can take part in the contest.. 2
Andy Shutt Posted February 8, 2023 Posted February 8, 2023 Help.... Where can I find the "rules" for 2023, I have noted many discussion on the rules but not sure what the end result is for the rules for the coming season Thank you Andy 1
martynk Posted February 8, 2023 Posted February 8, 2023 Hi Andy Do you mean the rules for the FxRES postal or the FxRES full comps that are run around the country? If its the postal, they are at the top of each monthly challenge post. @Martin Oshould be able to provide you with the final ruleset for the full comps. Last I saw they were still in draft but ready for release. 1
Martin O Posted February 13, 2023 Author Posted February 13, 2023 On 08/02/2023 at 12:26, Andy Shutt said: Help.... Where can I find the "rules" for 2023, I have noted many discussion on the rules but not sure what the end result is for the rules for the coming season Thank you Andy My understanding is that the revised BMFA rule book (which includes the updated FxRES rules) will be published very soon.
simonv Posted February 15, 2023 Posted February 15, 2023 Hi, Just to confirm I am planning to release all BMFA rulebooks (Inc. Silent flight) in the next few days. Had a small delay in getting things issued due to illness. Simon Vaitkevicius BMFA Technical Director 1
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