satinet Posted November 24, 2023 Share Posted November 24, 2023 25 minutes ago, paul w said: As has been the case all along, it's absolutely despicable that all the risk they are trying to legislate against has absolutely nothing to do with our community, and yet they're still adamant that a separate legislative umbrella for us would be unworkable. All we can do is put as strong a representation as possible forward in response to this 'consultation'. Though, as already demonstrated, any majority view from our side will just be steamrollered (rant over!). Anyone know the definition of an 'association site' ? (see page 26 of CAP261). Let's be fair airliners and military jets have been dropping like flies these last few years due to the drone storm... Never mind the death toll on the ground. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Elam Posted November 24, 2023 Share Posted November 24, 2023 57 minutes ago, paul w said: As has been the case all along, it's absolutely despicable that all the risk they are trying to legislate against has absolutely nothing to do with our community, and yet they're still adamant that a separate legislative umbrella for us would be unworkable. All we can do is put as strong a representation as possible forward in response to this 'consultation'. Though, as already demonstrated, any majority view from our side will just be steamrollered (rant over!). Anyone know the definition of an 'association site' ? (see page 26 of CAP261). I suspect that this means a site that is run by a club registered with the BMFA, LMA etc. It would mean an end to clubs not registered with an official association/body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satinet Posted November 24, 2023 Share Posted November 24, 2023 12 minutes ago, Dave Elam said: I suspect that this means a site that is run by a club registered with the BMFA, LMA etc. It would mean an end to clubs not registered with an official association/body. E.g great orme. Got to say some of my best days flying been on random cliffs. Still at least the skies will be safer...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil.Taylor Posted November 24, 2023 Share Posted November 24, 2023 Very sad for slope soaring - and thermal soaring. I look forward to hearing the BMFA response to this. As an aside - I recently looked at "popular" drones & pricing e.g. DJI Mini - I was quite surprised to see that they are all under 250g now - therefore exempt from "drone rules" - great example of how commerce adapts to the rules. Phil. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted November 24, 2023 Author Share Posted November 24, 2023 9 minutes ago, Phil.Taylor said: As an aside - I recently looked at "popular" drones & pricing e.g. DJI Mini - I was quite surprised to see that they are all under 250g now - therefore exempt from "drone rules" - great example of how commerce adapts to the rules. Some sub 250g UAVs are exempt from some things, some aren't. One of the things that the CAA want to do is remove some of the sub 250g exemptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Northiam Posted November 24, 2023 Share Posted November 24, 2023 38 minutes ago, Phil.Taylor said: Very sad for slope soaring - and thermal soaring. I look forward to hearing the BMFA response to this. As an aside - I recently looked at "popular" drones & pricing e.g. DJI Mini - I was quite surprised to see that they are all under 250g now - therefore exempt from "drone rules" - great example of how commerce adapts to the rules. Phil. Not exempt if they carry a camera I believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wookman Posted November 24, 2023 Share Posted November 24, 2023 And what is the point of them if they don't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil.Taylor Posted November 24, 2023 Share Posted November 24, 2023 sub 250g - become a complete drone nuisance - legally... Phil. CAA - website If your drone is under 250g then there are some variations to some of the rules. If your drone has a camera then you must register as an operator but you do not have to complete the flyer ID test (although we strongly recommend that you do). If you’re flying a drone or model aircraft that’s lighter than 250g, you can fly closer to people than 50m and you can fly over them, but you must not fly over crowds. CAA - The Drone and Model Aircraft Code The rules on minimum distances to people are different for drones and model aircraft below 250g. If you’re flying a drone or model aircraft that’s below 250g, you can fly closer to people than 50m and you can fly over them. You still can’t fly over crowds. Small drones and model aircraft below 250g: You can fly small drones and model aircraft that are lighter than 250g at residential, recreational, commercial and industrial sites. Remember, you must always fly safely. Examples of residential, recreational, commercial and industrial sites Residential sites include: individual residential buildings small groups of residential buildings housing estates villages cities and towns schools Recreational sites include: tourist attractions sports facilities beaches and parks theme parks Commercial sites include: shopping centres warehouses business parks Industrial sites include: factories docks rail and transport hubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wookman Posted November 24, 2023 Share Posted November 24, 2023 That all makes complete sense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted November 24, 2023 Author Share Posted November 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Phil.Taylor said: sub 250g - become a complete drone nuisance - legally... EASA drew a line at 250g based on impact energy. Personally I would have preferred that it was a bit higher. The situation in the UK is complicated by the fact that the FRZ rule doesn't have a mass limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satinet Posted November 24, 2023 Share Posted November 24, 2023 The caa is still using the Gatwick drone hoax for justification for the rules if you read the document. I mean the idea that people who would potentially cause collisions will full size aircraft are going to be using the remote Id system and following the rules like good boys.... I dunno I give up. Absolute deliberate dishonesty from the caa. Terrible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted November 24, 2023 Author Share Posted November 24, 2023 35 minutes ago, satinet said: Absolute deliberate dishonesty from the caa. Indeed and that is just one of the examples of the CAA dishonesty in CAP 2610. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeE Posted November 24, 2023 Share Posted November 24, 2023 How many illegal e- scooters and electric motorbikes are the police Persuing? Their potential for killing folk is great, the current response is feeble Do they really care or have time to chase slopers. If they do find time to start policing slopes, they need to refocus. Keep them busy, complain about everybody else! Seems to be how society works these days. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Minchell Posted November 25, 2023 Share Posted November 25, 2023 Just to point out that the BMFA have already recently contacted all club secretaries/chairmen and asked for the permanent flying site to be logged onto a UAV/drone map of the whole country. Apparently for the likes of Amazon and the NHS to plan their drone delivery corridors so that they do not interfere with the registered flying sites. One can only hope that the "route planning" does actually avoid all model clubs. Most members will not know of this. Maybe the answer is to form clubs to utilise sites where random flyers meet (like the Great Orme) and then register those sites on the drone map under the new club. I appreciate that is an extremely optimistic viewpoint, not least because of the 28,000 current BMFA members (as stated at last weekends AGM) less than 1% can be bothered to get off their backsides and do any work needed to run a club or do the necessary things to secure sites. John M 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Northiam Posted November 25, 2023 Share Posted November 25, 2023 19 hours ago, MikeE said: ... Do they really care or have time to chase slopers. If they do find time to start policing slopes, they need to refocus. ... It's not at all about chasing slope soarers. It is about the mass commercialisation of low airspace eg delivery drones and how they can safely thread their way through other air traffic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oipigface Posted November 25, 2023 Share Posted November 25, 2023 4 hours ago, John Minchell said: Just to point out that the BMFA have already recently contacted all club secretaries/chairmen and asked for the permanent flying site to be logged onto a UAV/drone map of the whole country. Apparently for the likes of Amazon and the NHS to plan their drone delivery corridors so that they do not interfere with the registered flying sites. One can only hope that the "route planning" does actually avoid all model clubs. Most members will not know of this. Maybe the answer is to form clubs to utilise sites where random flyers meet (like the Great Orme) and then register those sites on the drone map under the new club. I appreciate that is an extremely optimistic viewpoint, not least because of the 28,000 current BMFA members (as stated at last weekends AGM) less than 1% can be bothered to get off their backsides and do any work needed to run a club or do the necessary things to secure sites. John M That’s perhaps part of the answer, but it leaves Johnny No Mates (like me) who like to try out new slopes from time to time feeling deprived of that pleasure. It also seems rather unjust to be subject to rules designed to handle issues arising mostly in an urban or semi-urban context, when for many of the slopes that I frequent, the nearest houses and people are many hundreds of metres away. Of course I cannot yet be sure whether the places I go to are near to or far from the new drone corridors. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted November 25, 2023 Author Share Posted November 25, 2023 5 hours ago, John Minchell said: Just to point out that the BMFA have already recently contacted all club secretaries/chairmen and asked for the permanent flying site to be logged onto a UAV/drone map of the whole country. Apparently for the likes of Amazon and the NHS to plan their drone delivery corridors so that they do not interfere with the registered flying sites. One can only hope that the "route planning" does actually avoid all model clubs. Interesting. I wonder if they are going to put them in the Aeronautical Information Publication (AIP) like some other countries (e.g. France) do. At the moment only a few sites (mainly those with permission to operate 7.5+kg models over 400ft) are listed in the UK AIP. It also slightly goes against some CAA documents which say that they want UAVs operating BVLOS outside of danger areas to be able to detect and avoid obstacles and other airspace users. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oipigface Posted November 25, 2023 Share Posted November 25, 2023 BVLOS?? _ _ Line Of Sight?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted November 25, 2023 Author Share Posted November 25, 2023 Just now, oipigface said: BVLOS?? Beyond Visual Line of Site CAA CAP 2238: Detect and Avoid Challenge: Sandbox Announcement (this may be out of date) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted November 25, 2023 Share Posted November 25, 2023 52 minutes ago, oipigface said: That’s perhaps part of the answer, but it leaves Johnny No Mates (like me) who like to try out new slopes from time to time feeling deprived of that pleasure. It also seems rather unjust to be subject to rules designed to handle issues arising mostly in an urban or semi-urban context, when for many of the slopes that I frequent, the nearest houses and people are many hundreds of metres away. Of course I cannot yet be sure whether the places I go to are near to or far from the new drone corridors. Well it sounds like it might be time to stand up. If no one is around I, for one, will cautiously launch a registered glider off any slope I am allowed to walk on. No amount of regulation will stop me and any other unmanned flying devices will have to watch out. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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