Jump to content

F3L & F5L competition at Buckminster on the 30th March.


Alex Maxfield

Recommended Posts

Alex Maxfield

I will pass thanks to @Nick Jackson for his work in figuring out how to set up the timer/audio file to allow us to interleave the F3 and F5 event. @martynk you did a great job on the day as CD.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

John Minchell

Glad it all went well for you - especially the weather after Friday's cancellation. 

Apologies for my knot tying unservicability on one of the bungees.  

A Bowline and two half hitches to lock it, obviously were not enough - someone better check all the others as there are 12 of them on those 6 bungees!

John M

Link to comment
Share on other sites

martynk

No worries John, 

It wasn't a criticism, just an observation.. We checked the others, they wete all ok. 

 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Richard Newsham

Probably some of the best conditions I've flown in. Wind speed, amount of thermals, warmish and sky full of cumulus clouds. 
It was nice to take a break between slots and time for Rob Craddock.  I was able to see other people fly.  The time between slots was not rushed. Plenty of time to run out the bungee lines and get ready. I was worried that the amount of flights compared to FxRES (6 verse 10 + flyoff if you made it) was some how going to like, 'rob me' of flying but I didn't feel that. It was one reason I preferred the FxRES comp over the thought of slots. The number of flights in the end wasn't a factor. Taking part and enjoying the day was. 

Learnt alot again. Not only about flying but managing the time flown in the slot time of 9 minutes.

Thank you to Martyn and Alex for running the event and all those behind the scenes.

Richard

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Richard Newsham

If anyone is interested this was my bungee launch from the fly off.  The bungee was laid out 145m from the flight line.  Martyn measured 4KG pull on the bungee from the flight line.  Bit of a work out pulling it back. Not fully sure of the wind speed.  I measured it with my anemometer, which is not calibrated, in the afternoon. I'd say the wind was around 3.0m/s ISH. I'll happy take another observation if you think different.

Richard

 

 flyoffbungeelaunch.thumb.png.adfa9a49316d455c3069605acedb7c57.png

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

martynk

I thought they were getting a good height.. Springy line and fresh bungee rubber. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pete in Northiam

Nice launch Richard! And a great example of the dive and ping release. The step up in the curve is clear.  Is this why bungees were piled so near the stakes?

By eye I reckon you still had ~ 20m stretch in the bungee when you climbed off so quite a lot of energy. Do you feel you could have dived further and faster to get even more energy out? This ends up looking like old-school F3J winch pinging that led to full fibre wings...

My weather data (not ground measure) suggested winds at 100m were about 15 metres/sec. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pete in Northiam
11 hours ago, martynk said:

I thought they were getting a good height.. Springy line and fresh bungee rubber. 

... and a much more favourable wind than forecasts suggested. Tons of wind energy and flying into lift was just fun!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pete in Northiam
22 hours ago, John Minchell said:

Glad it all went well for you - especially the weather after Friday's cancellation. 

Apologies for my knot tying unservicability on one of the bungees.  

A Bowline and two half hitches to lock it, obviously were not enough - someone better check all the others as there are 12 of them on those 6 bungees!

John M

Big thanks for a set of matched bungees John! I flew each and they were very even. One (small, easily fixed) failure isn't bad at all in first pulls. I had to recall an entire batch of challenge bungees (a dozen I recall) for reworking after I used the wrong heat-shrink tubing! 😯 I'll ping you re knots

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

cirrusRC

Yes great launch Richard,  and no stall off the top either.       How did this compare with the rest of your flights?     My data shows I launched to 120m in all flights bar the 3rd round where I was 140m.     I clearly need to work on my technique and line prep.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

John Minchell

Just a thought, would it be sensible to put a notepad or A4 sheet in the box with the stored bungee reels and box of landing tapes etc., so that if there is an issue with any single component, it is written down so that someone (maybe the next CD to use, or anyone visiting Bucky prior to next use) can repair it or service it.  There is reel of 200+metres of spare line in the box so a couple of complete replacement 100m lines.  This would enable a record of the serviceability of all 6 systems and who did the repairs and when.

John M

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Richard Newsham
1 hour ago, Pete in Northiam said:

Nice launch Richard! And a great example of the dive and ping release. The step up in the curve is clear.  Is this why bungees were piled so near the stakes?

By eye I reckon you still had ~ 20m stretch in the bungee when you climbed off so quite a lot of energy. Do you feel you could have dived further and faster to get even more energy out? This ends up looking like old-school F3J winch pinging that led to full fibre wings...

My weather data (not ground measure) suggested winds at 100m were about 15 metres/sec. 

1, piled near the stake. Not sure. The bungee recoils very quickly. You can here it through the pennant. So the pennant is down an amount quickly. So out of any wind high up and if there is thermal activity then no wind or less wind. So the bungee pennant will just come straight down I guess. And if you maximise time on the bungy you will be not far from being over the stake. I sometimes look for the sun's reflection streaking up the line to gauge a position. Any thermal infill will drag the pennant, line and possibly bungee and lay it out more. Just my non technical see it and say it thoughts. 🙂

The pennants are too small to use as a visual aid to indicate if there is a thermal by how slowly they return to earth. I have a bigger pennant on my monthly duration challenge bungee. I can spot that easily and gauge if it is returning slower. Plus it's closer to me due to length of bungee used. 

2, 20m left. Alex mentioned my wings were 'bending'. I can't remember his exact words but surfice to say there was a bit of load on the wings during launch. I dread to think the load they go through when I pinged. The question is, how much more height lost from the dip for speed gain, for what amount of extra ping height. And at what point, if any, will the wing fail. These bungees are a lot keener than the monthly duration challenge ones so what I do and test on that perhaps won't correlate to the comp bungees. I would like to see other launch graphs. If anyone from Europe is listening in, can you provide launch and ping graphs? 

I'll look back at previous pings and report back for a guide to typical height gain. Never had one over 20m. I will be chuffed if I achieve that. I think typical is 14m with a good ping. I'll post my ping graphs for the comp under @cirrusRC post below. 

I tried to end my pings at the comp rather abruptly by applying down elevator and perhaps too soon. I didn't want to wait and stall out of the ping. Not only do you lose height that may be recovered some by managing the stall but at a time when a lot of things are happening, a stall and recovery at 140m is not what you want to manage. 

3, I have not thought about the difference in wind speed at height. That's potentially a big difference. 

Richard

Link to comment
Share on other sites

martynk

Any more thoughts on the format of the comp compared with traditional FxRES events?  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pete in Northiam

commented on FB in an answer to Andy Harold. Can repost here if more useful?

Might as well. I said, "On the format, although we only flew six round plus two flyoffs in each of F3L and F5L for this contest, we were a little late starting (about 10:35), had plenty of buffer time between rounds and the contest finished relatively early (by 16:00) so I believe we could fairly easily add more rounds.  F3 and F5 pilots timed each other so we had enough timers.  I really like the focus on the task that slots brings and a bit more discipline on launching.  I like the rule of only pilots and timers on the flight line - fewer distractions.  Several people (including me) took advantage of relaunches, and several (but not all!) of those to good advantage in score.  Flying at landing tapes didn't make life too hard and having definite targets helped keep gliders separate (and pilots awake) at the end of each slot.  Not that it help my landing accuracy though - I need more practice!"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Richard Newsham
5 hours ago, cirrusRC said:

Yes great launch Richard,  and no stall off the top either.       How did this compare with the rest of your flights?     My data shows I launched to 120m in all flights bar the 3rd round where I was 140m.     I clearly need to work on my technique and line prep.

All flights into wind ie no thermal lull.

My six slot launches:

Flight1 #59

flight2 #62

flight3 #63 unknowingly a broken model hence could be the reason for a lower launch height. My first flight of round 2 came off the bungee early so I re-launched. The 2nd flight (flight #62) of round 2 I hit a cracking thermal and heard the call 2 minutes to go.  WHAT!!!  I had miss calculated the time taken to retrieve the bungee so my 9 minute slot had just disappeared before my eyes. I thought I had loads of time left for a 6 min flight. NOPE!!!.  So a controlled rapid decent.  I can only think my landing was a bit tough. I panicked and did have about 20 seconds left on the slot time  All good experience for next time.  The wing bolt brackets, glued to the slots in the side of the fuse, had come away and one rear fuse side had come away from the former by the rear wing bolt bracket.  The rear of the wing was loose and I could lift it from the fuse a good 1mm. 

flight4 #65

flight5 #66

flight6 #67

Flight_1.thumb.png.75a80dcbc492697984ab0c86781abf26.png

 

Flight_2.thumb.png.7813edab034b6a94e0e8ab90fd42e99a.png

 

Flight_3.thumb.png.d225122cb5d7d9d07d29ebfdbe87229b.png

 

Flight_4.thumb.png.d07ac2609787a6d16a31de22a308aa9c.png

 

Flight_5.thumb.png.3469c7868210a84a0465d11be2e09663.png

 

Flight_6.thumb.png.b6cfa525da410f6bde925eddcb90a779.png

 

Flight 2 after a re-launch. Cracking thermal with a blip I can't remember right at the end.  Where I might have unknowingly broke my model. Probably tight on the 9 minute line for my score to count!

Flight_2_quickdecent.thumb.png.bfc131cc670d8c9f0a997d15107fbb5b.png

Flight 3 before dinner break.  After launch the Purito just sped away.  I thought this is a good thermal as they seem to fly faster in a thermal but it was coming down.  Something's up. Lots of up trim adjust and up elevator compensation but I didn't know why.  Good job I checked the model over at dinner and made the necessary repairs.

Flight_3_brokenaircraft.thumb.png.9cf54a3c1ca7ac07087cb521a45daf33.png

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

cirrusRC

@martynk when you get chance, can we please get the full results (times+scores)?

Ref format, I much preferred the structured format over FXRES.  My only question would be whether we consider a mass start on the buzzer so everyone has to fly in same conditions (they can relaunch as required).   For F3L this would need to be staggered and in correct order to help eliminate bungees crossing over.   We were lucky on Saturday not to have a tangled mess, on a more thermic and calmer day this could easily have happened with the random launching.

Only other thing would be whether we allocate launch numbers so everyone rotates round and the risk of a bungee advantage is eliminated.

As said before, it was a pretty impressive first go at the new format.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Richard Newsham
7 hours ago, martynk said:

Any more thoughts on the format of the comp compared with traditional FxRES events?  

Not flying 10 flights wasn't a problem I thought it might be. No less enjoyment. And if I wanted more flights I could fly F5L also.

The FAI format provided 6 flights on Saturday for each class. Could be a struggle to push for 7. This is with only 4 people in each class. High numbers participating, more than 6 for bungee, will probably reduce the amount of rounds flown due to extra slots.

Laying out the bungees can eat into prep time so would be cautious about reducing bungee prep but perhaps F5L prep time could be reduced for later comps.

The pause button was used a couple of times and seemed to be effective on Gliderscore. When prep time was over and a bungy line was still being sorted out the timing was managed by unpausing the system, a certain time later, into the slot running time. Seemed to go alright. I've never had anything to do with a timing system before and from a flyers point of view I have nothing to say. It just seemed to work. A bit wierd how it pronounced my surname. Ha ha. There is obviously a set of equipment involved and everything that goes along with it. Transport, setup etc. Will people be willing to carry on doing what was needed to be done for this comp for the rest of the comps? Is this down to one person or can it be passed amongst people?

FxRES comps are less formal and I'd say easier going now there is no landing bonus points.  Although the F3L / F5L are more formal in the way you fly slots with a time constraint, you can make the comp what you want it to be. A fun day out or add a competitive edge. From a personal point of view I hope it's competitive.
Nobody I don't think was not where they were meant to be. It just flowed. Martyn did an excellent job at keeping score and at the end the scores were processed quickly.
I can't wait for the next one. 
Richard. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

martynk

Here are the results

image.png.0320d59f58a3d3cd4ac74258481355c1.png

image.png.c7aba3593209b785b7261906d47bb425.png

Bungee Bungee Bungeeee F3L  [Buckminster 30/03/2024]   Round Scoresimage.png.c98e09fb5f2453828237d5c29e918cca.png

image.png.55b4301d9e52c35cfe99febb11e3d5ed.png

 

  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

cirrusRC

Massive thanks Martyn.

I hadn't appreciated top 2 positions was determined solely by the fly off.  I should have launched again in F3L.

Also crazy how ones judgment and sane thinking can be impaired by pressure and the desire to win.  🤣

That final round in F5L where I threw away 4 min flight to try and better it and ended up with a 2:34!!  Where was my brain?

  • Like 2
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

martynk

LOL

It was a learning curve for all of us I think.. Thoroughly enjoyable though.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.