Orden (standard layup) V Shinto (full F3F layup)

[Al Morgan]

My friend and I have started flying F3F and we have had a few sessions out including today just South of Marlboro with a very strong wind. For the first time we both flew with maximum ballast with both planes around 4.7 kilos. Both planes went really fast when the conditions were right and thermals came through. Seriously exhilarating.  Both aircraft were quick and sounded great but I think the Shinto edged it.  My Orden has  a standard layup  and the Shinto a full F3F 'heavy' layup.  My question is this, do the wings on the standard layup flex more resulting in a loss of speed?  Its hard to tell if they are flexing, although to my untrained eye, I think there are signs of a slight flex. Its quite a subtle thing to try and observe when the model is flying. 

Do the majority of F3F models fly at comparable speeds in a straight line. I understand they are designed with wing sections designed to perform better in different  areas of the envelope? Im asking because Im trying to figure out if I order a new heavy set of wings, or consider a new model.  Thanks

[MikeE]

Both models are competitive. Stronger layup will give you better handling in big air when carrying a lot of weight. 

But there aren't many comps in the UK that need full ballast. 

Equally important - which is faster in light air? 

No need to start changing models, but worth considering what you would buy if you wanted a second model.

[Phil.Taylor]

11 hours ago, Al Morgan said:

Im trying to figure out if I order a new heavy set of wings, or consider a new model.  Thanks

 

As Mike says - they are both modern, competitive models - both will be just fine in a UK F3F comp. The flip side of a heavy layup is that the model isnt as agile as a lighter layup - I prefer lighter. Wing flex is irrelevant these days - they are all more than strong enough for the F3F task.

Hope to see you having a go at an F3F comp ?

Phil.

 

[MikeE]

4 August - Long Mynd, Shropshire

17-18th - Whitesheet English Open.

Both venues offer a good introduction to F3f.  Nice landing areas, rotor free and flying without having to push close to a rocky edge.

It would be good to see you there.

[oipigface]

I agree with Mike and Phil. After a couple of decades trying, I’ve only ever broken one F3F wing, although I have (rarely) seen the wings flex on a really good racing day. The one I broke was a Pitbull (my second, I think). I was on Lundy with Mark T. There was a 20-25mph westerly blowing, and I was suffering from the belief that I had ‘got away with’ the small scrape onto the rocky edge at Mickey’s a few days earlier. On the second or third turn the wing sort of exploded and the model was no more.

Enjoy F3F, Al. For me it’s been a really good part of my life - sadly now over because of advancing age.

Two good models you’ve got there. All you need to do now is practise!

[satinet]

I wouldn't waste money on a new set of wings. Its nearly the same cost as a whole new model and it wont gain you anything.  

As others have said you will hardly ever fly with full ballast in an actual contest. Most of the time it will be slower due to the disadvantage of weight in the corners.  

Edited June 22 by satinet

[Brett]

Don't over think it when you start out. Both models will be great in a comp, and certainly get you both started.

Best thing you can do,  start flying comps, get loads of advice, help and support during the comps. As you progress, you will then know if you need a new model, and if so, what you want. 

Don't go spending more money until you have flown in comps.

Edited June 22 by Brett82

[Mikeb52]

3 hours ago, oipigface said:

I agree with Mike and Phil. After a couple of decades trying, I’ve only ever broken one F3F wing, although I have (rarely) seen the wings flex on a really good racing day. The one I broke was a Pitbull (my second, I think). I was on Lundy with Mark T. There was a 20-25mph westerly blowing, and I was suffering from the belief that I had ‘got away with’ the small scrape onto the rocky edge at Mickey’s a few days earlier. On the second or third turn the wing sort of exploded and the model was no more.

Enjoy F3F, Al. For me it’s been a really good part of my life - sadly now over because of advancing age.

Two good models you’ve got there. All you need to do now is practise!

Well John,

I’m sure we would all like to see you at the English open, this year. You flew very well in the comp last year, even though it was just the one day. If you have any issues retrieving your model after landing, let us know. Plenty of us will be able to help, including me. 

[oipigface]

I am actually going to set off for Yorkshire next week, and will be at the Eurotour, despite not having practised. Mark T has said that others may land for me, which will be a big help. I’ll see how it goes. I’m planning a trip to France as well as cheerleader for Team GB in the World Championship. 
One thing I won’t be doing is regular racing. Needs too much travelling and preparation to be a sensible use of my dwindling energy levels. Being governed by a timetable has become extremely stressful. 
On the positive side, my venture into scale modelling is taking shape slowly and with no deadline in sight. Watergliders will fly!

[oipigface]

On 21/06/2024 at 22:11, Al Morgan said:

Do the majority of F3F models fly at comparable speeds in a straight line.

Another footnote: When I went to interview Jiri Baudis, he told me a story: He and Dirk Pflug went out with a bunch of test wings for potential F3B use. One of them stood out as being very good at going round corners, and they developed it further into the Pitbull, because (paraphrasing his actual words) ‘F3F pilots never fly in straight lines’.