FXRES Monthly Challenge in 2025

[martynk]

Hi all

I am happy to run the postal challenge again next year (if that's OK with you all).

This post is to open discussions or proposals for any rule changes for next year.

To kick off the discussion, can I suggest that:

• We increase the motor run length to 30 seconds with a 90m altitude cut off. Submitted flight times to have motor run time deducted as per current rules.
• We increase the bungee line length to 100m plus 15m of 7/5mm latex (or similar material) bungee.

Broadly FAI rules except without the bungee stretch test. I have suggested FAI rather than FXRES to compensate for the F3L disadvantage of launching in a restricted airspace. 

My thoughts are:

1. We need to promote flying to FAI/FXRES rules to encourage more competitors. This will bring the postal comp more in line with what we should be flying.
2. The majority (by a huge margin) fly F5L and this change will have little impact on flying space.

The downsides are:

1. F3L pilots will need to acquire new or extend existing bungee assemblies.
2. More space required to fly F3L.  This may be a killer for some pilots, ( It will certainly affect my ability to fly F3L unless the wind is literally straight down the field- any cross wind is out due to the proximity of trees).

As F3L pilots will be most affected and I don't wish to disenfranchise anyone, please speak up if you think this suggestion is a personal show stopper. 

Originally, the postal rules were introduced to encourage flying from smaller sites and 9 years ago (I think) when we started, F5L was only a twinkle in some European eyes. It was all F3RES and we didn't actually have a UK contest scene. The world has moved on and I think we need to move with it. 

You may have other/better ideas, please don't be afraid to share your thoughts.

[John Minchell]

I'll throw my ten pennorth in Martyn.

Even  though I have not yet flown in your monthly challenge.  I acquired a "short" bungee from Pete a few years ago for the sole purpose of doing regular flights in your BARCS monthly challenge competition and fully intend to do it in 2025.  The two fields I have available to me only Cruckton can take the longer bungee, the other will have to use the shorter one.  I would suggest that keeping the launch parameters as they are allows more people to have a go at their local (perhaps smaller) field with the shorter layout length requirement. 

If the majority do want to change to the FAI (or near spec) longer bungee then I will probably migrate to the electric launch F5L class as it is much easier logistically when solo going to fly.  Not as much walking to lay out the line put in the anchor and collect it all up afterwards etc..

Also, per your point 1 to promote closer to FAI rules - would that include flying the 6 minute max and a spot landing, or the unlimited max as at present?

Regards John M

[Dave Elam]

From a personal point of view I would be in favour of the increased altitude limit.

I fly from my club's flying field and the primary interest there is fixed wing power. I find that a 60m climb out puts me right in the area where a lot of fixed wing models are flying which makes for uncomfortable and risky flying, especially when circling around in whatever lift I may find. 90m would get me to a much safer height from which to start that search for lift. My field also is also not graced with many sources of low level thermal generation and from flying other electric gliders I know that I need to get higher than 60m to be in with a chance of finding that lift.

I do also agree that it makes sense to align the launch heights to F3L/F5L rules. The downside though could be that from such launch heights much longer flights will be achievable and I'm not sure how many competitors want to be standing around stretching their neck muscles for 1 hour plus? Maybe a max of an hour?

Having said that I'll be happy to agree and go with the consensus as I can't see any changes being detrimental in affecting my interest in the monthly comps.

[Pete in Northiam]

Thanks for this year and your offer for next year. I have to say I am against increasing the bungee length at all. None of my local clubs have fields large enough to run 100m bungees - I have to drive many miles for that. One of the joys of the present (2023) postal rules, aside from getting plenty of choose-to-launch practice, is not having to travel. So if it's to be lengthened I will probably drop out entirely. I guess that also means my vote is against 90m/30s F5 launches althoug an F5L fuselage is on my build list. I otherwise have resolved to get another F3L entry in this month!  Best wishes -- Pete 

[Paul Wellacott]

I guess its horses for courses. the F5 flyers probabaly wont have any issue with the change in start altitude, whereas the F3 guys will be the ones affected.

That said, I actually prefer the lower launch for the duration, its good enforced low level lift working. 

I have both F5 and F3, and I'm going to build another F3 this year, I have both length bungees, i find that on 100m launches its easier to get into already devloped lift or move to the better air. I also get why we would want to change to FAI rules.

My view is this, personally I've never submitted a score on the monthly duration where i've not had some form of thermal climb out, so starting at 60 or 100 matters not. I agree that its probably easier to start at 100, but nobody is saying that you can't use a 60m bungee, I probably would for practice. (CirrusRC doesn't need a bungee to win!)

what about a poll in the forum and on the facebook page?

lastly, Martyn, thank you so much for arranging this again, I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking you do a fantastic job !

[MikevE]

I like the lower launches - flying is more fun when it's harder, and it develops our piloting ability more.

[Martin O]

My flying is F3l so my comments relate mainly to that.

I am all for alignment with FAI rules but equally it would be good to encourage more clubs to get into FxRES and shorter bungees open up more club fields that could be used.

Maybe there is room in the rules to accommodate both bungee lengths and possibly consider a simple handicap system.

Not really an answer but just airing some thoughts.

[Richard Newsham]

Hi Martyn 

Thank you for running the postal challenge and into 2025.

The size of my flying site limits me to the 60m long bungee. On a warm summers day with a light breeze I should at some point find that all important thermal and I'll be away. So if the rules change to 100m bungee I will still use the 60m if that would still be allowed. Don't see why not. 
In winter I will probably switch to F5L due to weak thermals and that probably means flying in dead air where a bungee achieves low launch heights. 

Although higher launch height should help on finding your first thermal, after that, it's business as usual. 

I guess there is nothing stopping anyone who wishes to launch lower to hone their flying skills if your proposed rule change is adopted.

It's a different height that shouldn't distract from the 'for fun' challenge. I don't think an extra 30 meters is going to change a 7 minute flight into a 40 minute flight for example. Glad to be proved wrong if it is the case. 

Will a higher launch height see more people take part? Let's hope so. Then that's a good thing if it does. 

Richard. 

[mark_r]

Martyn, thanks for keeping this going.

I'm hoping to do a bit more res through the coming months. The monthly postal is great opportunity to keep interest going, but assuming I do manage to get any thermals, I will limit my flight time to around 20 mins as anything longer is more than I want in a single flight.

The starting height makes no difference to me, but I would think that keeping it at 60m provides much more opportunity for bungee launches on smaller sites. Btw - I've always thought f3 fliers have an advantage over f5 in anything other than dead air. Launch heights off a bungee are potentially much higher in any breeze than with an electric motor. It doesn't matter for this though - engagement is more important.

[andyharrold]

Everyone's personal situation/requirements are different so I think that we are going to struggle to find a common ground.

As a club flyer , low launches, low level circling is not really acceptable for my club mates. This is one of the reasons that I have not taken part this year.

The increased launch height I believe would be more attractive/ suitable / fun  to new entrants.

 

[andyharrold]

Suggestion.

As this is for fun! And about inclusion and participation.

 

Those twanging/ motoring to 60m will be awarded a 2 min bonus.

[andyharrold]

.

[Carl]

I too would like to thank Martyn for his work on the monthly challenge, and pleased it will continue into 2025  I like having a purpose in my flying.

With the proposed rule change, I'm quite happy either way. But it does add to the challenge having the 60m launch height.

Carl

[Matthew]

Chiming in here just to say thanks to Martyn for running this , it's been really good to have that focus when flying out of a competition. Personally I like the challenge of a 60m height launch, but for me this is all about getting as many people as possible involved. I'm lucky in that the club I fly at is mainly gliding, so there isn't too much contention with different types of flying. The field is large enough for 100m bungee launches, but during the summer the long grass can make this hard work as it doesn't always get cut.

[Lawrence D]

Why not run with both for F3L?

[Hydeflyer]

I fully support the change to 90m / 30 secs for F5L. I gave up on the bungee launch F3L option after walking miles laying out the bungee, launching and failing to find lift all afternoon! However I can see how an elongated bungee option would be difficult for those wishing to use that method on a small field. Perhaps there could be a separate comp for the current shorter bungee? It seemed last year that there were very few F3L entries I think?

[Paul Wellacott]

how are we going to resolve this? is there a 'voting' option in the forum? i can't see how to set one up. 

one could be easily set up in the F3 RES & F5 RES - UK facebook page, but I'm aware that there are a lot of other nationalities on there.

Unless the first question is;

1. "are you a UK resident?"
2. Keep the rules as per 2024 60m launch height both F3&F5
3. Adopt the FAI heights for launch and bungee regulations
4. etc.

then list the various options to vote on. otherwise its going to be a long list of opinions. 

[Pete in Northiam]

7 hours ago, Hydeflyer said:

...Perhaps there could be a separate comp for the current shorter bungee?...

This _is_ the competition for the shorter bungee! I know because I made two dozen of them  

[JulesGrocott]

HI Martyn, thanks again for running the competition. I had a year out last year for various reasons but plan to be active in 2025. My observation is that Hyperflight sell a 15metre bungee rubber with connectors at both ends which they claim is RES legal but it is 8mm wide as opposed to your 7mm. It would make life easy if we could use that. One mm will make no difference to my performance, I lack the most important requirement - Skill. I will of course conform to whatever is decided.

[Paul Wellacott]

I didn’t notice that, I bought the Hyperflight one as the “approved” one. I’ve seen the same one advertised on a German modelling site as well. 
Which is correct?