Jump to content

Ultimate F3F programming?


rc-soar
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hi guys,Something which we don't get to talk about is the ergonomics (in the broad sense) of F3F setup and how it relates to programming the transmitter. How to minimise the number of switches, and the number of switch operations, while retaining the flexibility necessary to trim out as well as race the model.To this end, I've written an article on my blog. While it's geared to higher end sets like the mc4000 and 12FG, users of mid-range systems may find it useful.

http://rc-soar.blogs.....ogram.html

Happy New Year

Mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good to hear from you on here Mike.

I enjoyed your article and found it thought provoking. Having differential on the rudder trim is ingenious! I don't think I can get that to work on my FX30 (which is the same programming as 12FG I think). The differential setting on the Futaba is excellent though allowing diff to be set for up and down for each wing servo individually as opposed to grouped either side. This allows for the easy tuning out of a model that inexplicably rolls better one way than the other, just not in flight.

Snap flap expo is way beyond me but sounds trick ;0) Pengy had a very trick setting for his skorp where the snap flap came in early on the elevator stick and then tailed off with more elevator to get the initial 'kick' into a turn and then lose the drag as you pull more elevator (just a weird curve). It worked great for him but I couldn't get it to go for me, the only other downside was that you got a blip of snap as you released the stick too. Not sure if there is a radio where you can get one response for the stick going in one direction and another for it going back to centre?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

isoaritfirst

Although it doesn't make for easy on site reprogramming Pete it should be remembered that all Diff and expo are are curves of the aileron input.So just making the curve the shape you want will give any amount of variables in most trannies. Andy_B said:

Id not thought of having in flight diff volume Mike ....excellent idea .....Must get Mr Evans to sort it for me .....
Have I taught you nothing !I want to see that up and running by the weekend... 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Andy_B said:

Id not thought of having in flight diff volume Mike ....excellent idea .....Must get Mr Evans to sort it for me .....
it's easy - for the switch for differential change it to an analogue switch. yep the p4000 is the daddy in a lot of ways. Hope they bring out a p5000 with even more features.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nice clear article Mike, thanks.I'm using a Royal Pro 7 and although it considerably more configurable than the Cockpit it falls well below the power of my old 4000. Forget the Global Mixer business, its the lack of multimix and volumes that hack me off a bit. Still abrilliant bit of kit though and I know I'm nowhere near its full potential yet. Hopefully down to just a couple of switched options on my set up soon, and those three ways toggles that stick out of the side somply HAVE to go.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks all for your feedback!Peter: Just had a look at my review notes for the 12FG, and it seems that differential can be linked to a control, for in flight adjustment. Also the trims can be decoupled and used as regular controls. Hopefully the same will apply to the FX30.Tom: Yep, a replacement for the 4000 after thirteen years or so is going to be fascinating!Andy: Sounds like Mike will sort out your diff in a jiffsmile.gif Cheers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Mike, Intersesting read. Wish the royal pro had proper snap flap volume. It can be set individually for ail and flap on each adjust knob...but unless you write a look up table for values that result in a lined up trailing edge its a pain. Simon Thornton suggested I setup reflex on a slider...this post got me off me bum and I have that set to play with next fly :mad: Stu (RabbitStu)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 weeks later...

No problem to do adjustable snap flap expo on the 12FG/FX-30 and it can can be assigned to any control. There is several ways to do it (probably even more):- same way as Mike did it for P4000 ie two alternative elevator curves on adjustable mixer- using camber mix for snap flaps and making two alternative curves which are chain mixed to elevator- using butterly mix for snap flaps and making two alternative curves which are chain mixed to elevator- using flaps mixer and two mixers for ailerons, then two alternative curves again (this gives also adjustable flap/aileron rate)- using free mixers for all control surfaces, then alternative curves etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hpihl said:

No problem to do adjustable snap flap expo on the 12FG/FX-30 and it can can be assigned to any control.There is several ways to do it (probably even more):- same way as Mike did it for P4000 ie two alternative elevator curves on adjustable mixer- using camber mix for snap flaps and making two alternative curves which are chain mixed to elevator- using butterly mix for snap flaps and making two alternative curves which are chain mixed to elevator- using flaps mixer and two mixers for ailerons, then two alternative curves again (this gives also adjustable flap/aileron rate)- using free mixers for all control surfaces, then alternative curves etc.
Very interesting hpihl. Can you confirm this can be with the Link function? I have to admit being somewhat puzzled by this facilty when reviewing the 12FG, as along with one or two other screens it was completely undocumented in the manual. At least there's now an FAQ on the Futaba sitehttp://www.futaba-rc.....-q672.html
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Generally Futaba manuals are poor and there is no good examples to really open the logic behind programming these radios; 12FG/FX-30 as well as all other high end Futabas which share similar programming. I think that the main key to understanding is the concept of the virtual channels, it's hard to understand in the beginning but when you realize that every function is actually a virtual channel, the system starts to like more sensible and you realize the possibilities better. I'll give few examples how to solve this particular problem couple different ways.

The first example is similar with your approach ie adding two alternative elevator expo curves mixed for elevator and having them adjustable in a slider along snap flap volume in another slider. First we just enable the normal elevator/camber mix from the model menu, set the rates and assign a slider (RS or LS or what ever control) for volume of the snap flaps with the fine tuning option (make sure that all is done a single condition mode). It's good to have a radio in hand, just do it, trial and error... until you got these as you like. There are plenty of options and you learn these best if you just keep on playing with them. If you allready know what kind of snap flap expo is needed, you can add some expo to curve.

Now the magic: Open the linkage/function menu and look for the elevator line, it looks something like this in the mode 2 (depending on your setup):

1 ELEVATOR J2 G T2 G

First change the control setting as single:

1 ELEVATOR J2 S T2 G

Then remove the assigned control (only in this condition, check by changing the condition)

1 ELEVATOR -- S T2 G

Next go to model/prog.mixes menu and use one free mixer in single mode to mix J2 (H/W menu) as master to elevator as slave (link on, stk+stk on) , adjust the curve according to your needs to give max positive expo you consider possible and assign a slider to control the rate of the mix (fine tuning) so that one end of the slider gives 0% mix and another end gives 100%.Then use second mixer to mix J2 again with elevator but now with max negative expo curve and assign the same slider for fine tuning the rate so that one ends gives 100% and another  0% (opposite way than the first mix). Basically we cut the assignment between the stick and a virtual channel called elevator. Then we add two adjustable mixers between the stick and elevator to have adjustable exponential.

Another, less elegant, way to do almost the same is to keep the normal assignment and use two free mixers to add an alternating concave and convex curve to elevator (or snapflap) which sums up an exponential curve. However, this is more difficult to create.That's all for tonight. I'll describe later how to use the other mixers to get even more adjustable snap flaps and perhaps, if there is interest, I'll show how to do all this with a cheap Turnigy 9x tx with er9x firmaware... And sorry for my poor English :) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's all for tonight. I'll describe later how to use the other mixers to get even more adjustable snap flaps and perhaps, if there is interest, I'll show how to do all this with a cheap Turnigy 9x tx with er9x firmaware… And sorry for my poor english :) 
1. There's nothing wrong with your English.2. Thanks for the details so far3. Definitely interested in the er9x version - I use mine for basic planes and for playing with the software side of it - I haven't seen a good description of anyone using it with complex models and programs.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brilliant Harri - Well explained.  It is a shame that the very powerful programming abilities of these radios is so poorly explained by Futaba.  And while there are quite a few forum articles with hints, there are relatively few on gliding, whereas if you fly a helicopter, there are lots of hints. Simon

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, let's do snap flaps with a bit more adjusting possibilities; separate rate adjustment for ailerons only and separate expo for flaps only so.The preprogrammed elevator/camber mix can't do this so we disable it and we form our own snap flap mix by chaining five free mixers (edit: only 4 mixers needed, see below) and one free unused virtual channel (free real output would do as well if necessary). This can be built either way; from control surfaces or from stick, IMHO it's easier from the control surfaces.

First we mix one auxilary channel (as master) with ailerons (Aileron and Aileron2) using two free mixers, I used Aux1. This mix must be done separatedly for both ailerons the link option off to get both ailerons move to right way, rates can be set from the mixer screens. The fine tune option of both mixes is assigned to a same control (I used knob RD and symmetrical 50%) to get separate aileron volume adjustment. edit: only one free mixer needed for ailerons, I forgot that a linked channel can be reversed by choosing the minus (-) option for the link instead plus (+).

Next we mix Aux1 (master) with Flap, this time the link option can be on (affects both flaps) and rates can be set in the model/flap setting menu. Again we do the mix twice but this time we do similar alternative expo trick as we did with the elevator to get separate expo for the flaps (I used knob LD and plus/minus 75% expo).

The last step is to mix elevator stick (master) wíth Aux1 and fine tuning option is used to get the master volume on slider for the snap flaps same way as in the first example.Alternative way to do the master expo for the snap flap on elevator (as was done in the first example) would be adding one more mixer stage to the system where snap flap expo is adjusted. However, the end results is about the same regardless where the master expo is adjusted; at elevator or at flaps/ailerons.

Ok, I don't compete so I have no clear idea how to adjust a F3F plane so my setup ideas might be flawed. However, purpose was to give some idea how to get a bit more out of the 12FG/FX-30. I should set a Luna for the 9X radio next month so I'll write more about that then; there is limit of 32 mixer lines and I don't know yet if that is enough.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.