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F3B Electric


clive Needham
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clive Needham

Hi All,You can now fly F3B with electric motor launching, using the standard e-soaring limiter which is set before the start of the contest.The set height can be changed at any point in the contest if the height set is found to be too heigh or too low.The initial set height is based on the height by one of the leading pilots  using winch launching with a download from the model to the TX.The motor can be restarted at any time but in each case the the score up to that point will count.However in each task relaunches can be made.

As usual only the last score is the one counting.In the case of the speed task it must be completed (as many relaunches you want) without restarting the motor on course or a zero score is registered but it may be restarted after completing the task without penalty.The new rules to accommodate electric launched models are in the BMFA 2012 rule book.

Clive

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I don't think the rules for electric f3b are really fully considered.At the moment you get to launch to the height of the best competitor. Seems a bit unfair of those of us who aren't world class pilots/launchers who are flying "normal" f3b with a winch.  plus electrics doesn't have the disadvantage of flying back to base A (i.e loosing height). You can gain height in a more circular motion (or fly back to base A before you reach the height limit). With the winch you launch in to the wind. Who decides if the launch height is too low or too high?  And what is the mechanism for that decision?  Keep adjusting it to height of the best launcher? I don't really see how that is going to work, tbh.

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Clive – I think it would be worth starting a new thread around electric F3B to allow a bit of debate, without hijacking the F5J thread – I would be interested to see this debate, as at the moment an informal mix of eF3B with normal F3B at comp is a reason I would stay away!  An all electric F3B comp might be a different matter…  (Austin can probably move these last two or three posts to the new thread as well if you ask him nicely) Simon

Edited by simon_t
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clive Needham said:

Hi All,You can now fly F3B with electric motor launching, using the standard e-soaring limiter which is set before the start of the contest.The set height can be changed at any point in the contest if the height set is found to be too heigh or too low.The initial set height is based on the height by one of the leading pilots  using winch launching with a download from the model to the TX.The motor can be restarted at any time but in each case the the score up to that point will count.
 
However in each task relaunches can be made. As usual only the last score is the one counting.In the case of the speed task it must be completed (as many relaunches you want) without restarting the motor on course or a zero score is registered but it may be restarted after completing the task without penalty.The new rules to accomodate electric launched models are in the BMFA 2012 rule book.
 
Clive

It seems strange that all the inherent dangers, that were laid out as a case for not allowing electric motors to be restarted when flying to the F5j rules do not apply to F3b with electrics being allowed to fly.eek.gifI have flown at many electric comps now even run them including multi launch, without to my knowledge a problem with motors starting at the wrong time etc. IndeedIndeed multi launch was created because there were no Open Barcs Comps being run, due to lack of entrants.entrants. F3b has had to bring in electrics due to the lack of entrants no doubt due to age of those who want to take part. 

Barcs 230

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clive Needham

Hi Simon.I am happy to start a new thread but I am very new to this forum lark so do not know how to work the system. The point which needs to be made is that we are in a catch 22 situation.Without someone actually having a try (me in this case) at an alternative way of launching to demonstrate the feasibility due to the rapid development of electric systems we would have to wait for people to buy and set up models, which they would not do if there if there is no opportunity to compete with them

Therefore the only way at the moment is to have a mixture of both launching methods,however as soon as you? and others decide to have a go,this is all we can do.Once three or more decide to fly electric F3B it becomes possible to run separate slots within the Comp, in which case as all will be using height limiters the set cut off height will be immaterial since they will all start even.This is the holy grail of thermal soaring as it is not dependent on the pilots ability to launch but to make the best use of the air they find themselves in.

The added bonus in F3B is that you get three Comps in a day due to three tasks in each round for the price of one.The rules are completely new but we had to start somewhere and if it is necessary to tweak them this will be done.If a new thread is started I will be happy to expand further on the reasons for where we are at the moment.

Clive.

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  • Administrators

I moved the F3B posts to a new topic in the right forum. Sorry but the site had to go offline for a few mins to do it. Please let me know if you want the topic name changed and I will fix it. Austin.

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I know that its a new formula added to f3b, but if you use the motor for launch and then its disabled once launch height is achieved and tasks were completed I.A.W the f3b rules then I didn't see an issue with it. How ever the advantage gained in launching as well as the number one pilot could potentially give a clouded view on the performance. How ever I think its great for new comers who may not own a winch but do own a hit liner and would like to have a go.For me I prefer to stay pure at the moment. Jon

Edited by egaSJ
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3m electric models I love, now they can have a purpose! I'm really into the models and the gear, including ballast solutions as the requirements for this class are very limited off the shelf.  Anyone thought what E gliders they will use?

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well I applaud Clive for making and effort towards getting more people involved. If anyone wants to have a go at F3b I would urge you to do so. If anyone wants a go on the winch I will probably going over to upton on severn soon for a come practice flying. Give me a shout and I'll show you what (little) I know.

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thermaldoctor

I'm sure you've done it, but it if not it might be best to check with the Malvern Soaring Association first as it's their club field

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Thanks Clive & Austin.  

I agree with Clive that you have to start somewhere, and that means mixing F3B and eF3B together for starters.  It will help refine the rules and prepare the way, I'm sure, for higher numbers competing. I suspect that the expense of winches and batteries has been a blocker for some folks, but the cost of an eF3B model less so.  Seeing how many people are flying expensive mouldies on the slopes these days (or just sport flying them on the flat), it could be a great opportunity to grow F3B in this country.  

I have always enjoyed winching, and the skill and technique in getting as high as possible off the line, under all conditions, is for me an important part of the overall F3B task.  And it will be a variable throughout the day for everyone. Fiddling with height limiters seems a bit of a random job, seen alongside winch launches, which takes a bit of the purity out of combined comps for me.  So I'm not quite ready (in my head) for combined comps yet, but I will be watching with interest to see where this goes.  

Clive, maybe it would be worth writing a short article about eF3B, together with advice on suitable models, for Austin to put on the main BARCS homepage - it could be a great 'shop window' for this new branch of F3X.  Best luck with attracting new faces to multi-task soaring, whatever the launch method. 

Simon

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Gonesoaring2003 said:

Excuse my ignorance but shouldn't eF3B really be called F5B?

F5b isn't the same as f3b. 

F5b doesn't have a timed speed section, although I bet the models are blimmin' fast.eF3b doesn't use motor restarts during the round, but F5b allows you to use the motor several times, if I understand correctly, but you loose points for doing so. That's why F5b models are so powerful - to minimise motor run time.   

http://f5b.co.uk/?q=node/5http://www.f3b-team-...../wasen.htm 

putting a motor in an f3b model is just a means to simulate the winch launch. A really good winch launch can be 300m (or even more).

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  • 4 weeks later...

Seen Lucas fly the electric 100" needle at the Viking race in 2010.He was doing the bravest of low altitude pull outs. The hurricane looks like a half decent model though.There are way too many decent models to spend the cash on these days.

Edited by egaSJ
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