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Martin_N

Shinto from Aer-O-Tec

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PhilippeLanes

hi Simon

For me maiden flight yesterday, I have a very good feeling with the Shinto, its easy to drive, I will do the first competition with the Shinto in two weeks.

CG 85 mm I feel this CG a little bit front. Share me your's

For the snap flap i try 5 mm but I think it's not enough, for the next fly I will try  7 mm

I have a problem with the part of the wing who receives the servo is hollow and give a weakness to the structure that moves when I action the servo

Philippe

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simon_t

So, after weeks of busy weekends and work getting in the way during the week, I finally managed to grab enough hours to complete the flap installation last night, and did the control setup this morning. The SE wind direction was not ideal - the only local sites are all vertical cliffs with no land out and tricky rotor, not ideal for maidening a new model. As it turned out, the wind backed to an Easterly, allowing me to fly pretty local, although it is still a vertical cliff site, but with an easy landing a short walk away.

post-1762-0-79453700-1396133698_thumb.jp

A final check of the controls, and range check and we were ready to go. I decided to go without ballast due the light winds, about 4-6 m/s. The model went away, and due the narrow lift band the first turn was almost immediate, then into some gentle pumps to get it going. First impressions were that it tracked very well, rolled axially, the rudder was adequate, and the elevator slightly soft. But the model was incredibly easy to place on the edge in these conditions, and speed seemed very good. I tried the crow braking, and it ballooned slightly, so a bit more elevator compensation needed. A little more F3F type flying, and it feels excellent at EM style. The tracking made hitting the lines easy, and speed out of the turn was good. Time to land, and it landed at my feet . The brakes are very powerful - I could actually get to nearly 90 degrees down flap, but as I am only using it for slope at the moment, I have kept the throw to about 60 degrees.

post-1762-0-96007600-1396133839_thumb.jp

No adjustments felt necessary for rudder, ailerons or flaps, but I added about 10% to the elevator, and increased the butterfly compensation. I added two ballast pieces, about 320g total. I don't have joiner ballast yet, and as the main tube is behind the CG, the CG will creep backwards without compensation. Second flight was good - model slightly faster with some weight aboard, and elevator much better, but still slightly less than I like. More EM practice, and this model is feeling very good. I had been excited about getting this model, since seeing Stefan Eder, the designer, with his prototype at Ruegen in October, and so far I have not been disappointed. But of course a model needs to be flown in a variety of conditions, and in races, before a conclusion is reached. Being able to put it up against the Freestyler 4, is going to be interesting - what a benchmark!

Third flight, a bit more elevator, and total ballast now 640g, and its feeling nicely harmonised, responsive but not at all twitchy. I think my CG may be a bit conservative, so next session out I will be trying to creep the CG back a bit. Fastest flight so far. At the fastest points the model has a slight whistle. Need to investigate and see if I can track down what is causing that, as I don't recall Stefan's having a whistle.

I stopped after 3 flights, no changes planned, and the model feeling quite sorted for so few flights. Happy with butterfly compensation now, and boy does it descend under full crow. It should be an easy model to score full landing points in F3B.

The RDH I have used has produced very tight linkages, with no slop. The ailerons will go +/- 30 degrees, but I have kept the movements down to +/- 20 degrees, which is plenty of roll control for F3F. The new MKS 6625 HV servos are smooth, quick and powerful, and the extra rotation angle compared to the 6125 is notable. I put nearly 600mA back into the LiFe battery after the 3 flights, probably 45 minutes of flight time, and 10 minutes of ground running. These modern servos are fantastic, but they do drink the juice out of the battery very quickly.

Thanks Stefan, Max and Vladimir. You have created a good looking model, that has much potential. I may get a chance to fly it in anger next weekend.

Simon

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oipigface

Top flyers rarely reveal exactly how they do things. This report is very interesting. Thanks, Simon.

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simon_t

 

hi Simon

CG 85 mm I feel this CG a little bit front. Share me your's

For the snap flap i try 5 mm but I think it's not enough, for the next fly I will try  7 mm

Philippe

Philippe,

I started with CG on 85mm (just in front of the back edge of the wing joiner). I feel it could go back a little, and probably moved back 1-1.5mm with 4 pieces of ballast in. I need to get more flights to experiment with CG and snap flap.

Sébastien: thanks for the photos

Simon

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simon_t

Today was a chance to take the Shinto thermalling. With competitions going on at my two local club flat fields, I ended up at one of the Invicta slope sites, which has an area at the top suitable for setting up winches, and with the wind coming from the back of the slope, there wasn't going to be any slope lift. With the winch out, I quickly added a Start condition on the Tx, and set up launch flap, and we were ready to go. Martin Newnham had joined me by now, with his new Explorer.

With no settings guide, the launch set up was by eye. As it turned the launch flap was good, but I had slightly too much down elevator compensation, and the hook was too far forward (but safe). The model was easy to fly up the line, and I was very comfortable with it's handling. It weighs less than 2.1Kg, and really floats around the turns without dropping a wing. I got a decent thermal on the first flight, and took it up to about 400m, then brought it down in a vertical dive to check for flutter - nothing, but a very fast model, and with that turbine like sound when they go really fast.

Subsequent flights with rearward hook and reduced elevator compensation saw it launching very well - straight up a crackling line, and easy release. I didn't make any other changes to the control settings during the day. Possibly the only thing I might change, would be to slightly reduce the aileron throws in thermal mode, as they are quite sensitive. Landing control is good. The flaps go to nearly 90 degrees, and it we had a practice landing spot out all day - I hit the spot many times during the day

So a good days flying and thermalling, lots of launches, and some long flights. Very happy with this model. It is great addition to my F3x collection, and I look forward to getting some contest flights in with it. Is it faster than the Needle or Freestyler? Time will tell, but this model is definitely a 'keeper'.

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post-1762-0-76859600-1397414910_thumb.jp

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post-1762-0-88359600-1397415076_thumb.jp

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Martin_N

Shinto today on a sea slope, wind was light and slightly from the right:

 

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abbof3f
On 18/04/2014 at 19:16, Martin_N said:

Shinto today on a sea slope, wind was light and slightly from the right:

Noisey little bugger that Si.....but looks slippery  ;)

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Greg Dakin

Oh yes - I'm liking the look of that very much Simon. Quite a tempter....

 

Cheers,

Greg

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simon_t

Noisey little bugger that Si.....but looks slippery ;)

I think the video may make it sound noisier. It does have a whistle that I need to find. I was flying slope with the tow hook installed, which leaves a hole in the fuz, but it made a whistle without the hook and tape over the hole. When I flew it off the winch and dived from about 400 metres, it wasn't noisy, just that lovely turbine like swish as it came past at very high speed.

Today I improved the wipers/seals at each of the four wing horn positions. The dark bit in the centre is the fibreglass horns either side of the brass clevis, so there is no cavity in the horn area at all now:

From this:

post-1762-0-43105000-1397944522_thumb.jp

To this:

post-1762-0-70535300-1397944598_thumb.jp

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elecfit

Hi guys,

Has anyone achieved an optimum cg location for all round flying??

I suspect somewhere around the 87mm mark

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simon_t

I see Joe Wurts has just joined the Shinto club... Started with CG at 90mm, and now gone back a bit.

Simon

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Greg Dakin

Doesn't surprise me - superb model, and could almost have been designed by Maple Leaf.

Cheers,

Greg

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Martin_N

Bit of Shinto action on a low 10m sea slope:

 

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elecfit

We flew f3b two weeks ago, my first run sub 20s. Best flight for the day 17.33. Launch heights near 300 metres.

Cheers andrew

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isoaritfirst

 

Shinto has landed, 

It's Yellow

with black bits...

:)

shinto1.jpg

And why is my lawn green with yellow bits?

:huh:

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oipigface

Because next door's cat has been peeing on it.

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isoaritfirst

Looking forward to testing this lovely model this weekend. CG set at 90mm at the moment, I might add a small amount of extra nose weight for the first flight.

I have installed the LDS system and on the plus side its slick and easy to fit and adjust.

I do wonder though if its the way forward and whether RDS may have been the better choice.

The very short surface arms of the LDS are very neat but result in very reduced servo movement, and reduced mechanical advantage to the servo with increased chance of damaging a servo during any surface strike.

RDS would have allowed for a larger amount of servo rotation and better resolution. 

RDS however can suffer with slop around the centre and pocket wear, damage or contamination can cause issues.

 

Overall I think that If i decide to order another I would go with the RDS

Edited by isoaritfirst

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Aubry GABANON

So !! Congrats for your Shinto

What about your new weapon Mike ?

CG corrections 

Snap deflections regarding elevator

flying feels

I fly with the RDS version, there is a little gap around neutral but servo cost only 28 euros...

It fly great as it, but snap is not so precise around neutral, between 0 to 2, due to RDS kinematic, servo gap, pocket gap.

The only thing that make me afraid but I don't know, is regarding the ageing of the pocket through one or two years use...

wait and see...

Cheers,

 

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