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Martin_N

Woollybacks 29th December

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Clive Henry Jones

 

A few from yesterday.

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Martin_N

Hi Clive, some nice pictures, I hope we see you at some more races soon.

Martin

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Clive Henry Jones

Hi Clive, some nice pictures, I hope we see you at some more races soon.

Martin

Thanks Martin - If I am able I will come to the Bwlch ones. Working late Saturday nights means getting up early to travel on a Sunday is not that attractive!

Mark and Chris, I'm sure, enjoyed themselves as well and you will probably see them at the races in the future.

Clive.   :thumbsup:

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Greg Dakin

Well done Greg, I'm surprised you dont get more podium places tbh!

Thanks Dave - I think that Martin, Simon and Mark have set the bar so high now, that its really difficult to be competitive without investing many hours of time to research and practice the discipline (which I haven't got). That said, every now and again (but typically again), the slot gods smile on you, and help you to overcome any deficits in model choice, set-ups and/or flying skills - which is what happened yesterday - that said, I echo Mike's / Pete's thoughts regarding the Needle, as it really seemed to come into its own as the compression increased.

Cheers,

Greg

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abbof3f

Thanks Dave - I think that Martin, Simon and Mark have set the bar so high now, that its really difficult to be competitive without investing many hours of time to research and practice the discipline (which I haven't got). That said, every now and again (but typically again), the slot gods smile on you, and help you to overcome any deficits in model choice, set-ups and/or flying skills - which is what happened yesterday - that said, I echo Mike's / Pete's thoughts regarding the Needle, as it really seemed to come into its own as the compression increased.

Cheers,

Greg

 

Don't kid us Gregory!!! it still takes a great set of thumbs however much luck ya get!well done buddy.

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Clive Henry Jones

http://www.barcs.co.uk/forums/uploads/monthly_12_2013/post-1881-0-78414800-1388434595.jpghttp://www.barcs.co.uk/forums/uploads/monthly_12_2013/post-1881-0-46728800-1388434615.jpg

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Clive Henry Jones

http://www.barcs.co.uk/forums/uploads/monthly_12_2013/post-1881-0-18933700-1388434687.jpghttp://www.barcs.co.uk/forums/uploads/monthly_12_2013/post-1881-0-81675400-1388434713.jpg

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Clive Henry Jones

http://www.barcs.co.uk/forums/uploads/monthly_12_2013/post-1881-0-60841600-1388434783.jpghttp://www.barcs.co.uk/forums/uploads/monthly_12_2013/post-1881-0-47882400-1388434830.jpg

 

 

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Welshtibs

Hi Lads

 

Thanks for the kind words and even though I didn't fly it was great just to get out of the house and spend some time with good friends.

 

For the newer pilots who might be trying to work out what was happening Sunday apart form some people flying bloody fast  here  is a  bit of what I observed .

 

Sat in the centre was in interesting day  as you tend to see more of the line pilots are taking. It was quite interesting that every now and again in the earlier rounds some of the less experienced pilots would get out of shape and come close to slope and you could see the planes noticeably accelerate, something that I think Greg spotted and as a result he mixed up styles through the day with a mixture of EM  and the Norwegian turn/reversal .

 

As Simon observed maybe Greg hasn't quite got setups as fine tuned for EM as he would like and he felt he could get more from the air at times form his current set up using the  Norwegian turn/reversal. That said hats off to Greg to be able to mix both styles. If I remember correctly his fasted time was with the  Norwegian turn/reversal style but he won the final round flying EM. To understand what goes on the mind of Champion like Greg when he is on the course to make these changes is something  us lesser mortals would give our eye teeth for!

 

I am not trying to make this in to an EM v's Reversal debate as far as I am concerned EM is the way forward. The Bwlch is an exceptional site and probably one of the few  where the Reversal and bank and yank style can still compete with EM in certain conditions. It certainly would have been interesting if Kev and Joel had been there as they tend to attack a course with a more traditional style, just  to see what effect this would had on the outcome!     

 

Why would this have been interesting. Well both Kev and Joel would have been flying on a line close to where most pilots would have been stood Sunday to make their style work for them.  In fact Kev sometimes has the unnerving habit of standing behind the CD on Mickey's when he is racing  so that he can attack this line.

 

Anyway I hope this helps some of the new pilots start to question what was happening Sunday to help them on the road to Improvement.

 

Happy New Year

 

Andrzej   

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Greg Dakin

Don't kid us Gregory!!! it still takes a great set of thumbs however much luck ya get!well done buddy.

Thanks very much Marky - sadly missed on the day with that Caldera R!!!!

Cheers,

Greg

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rumbey

Why would this have been interesting. Well both Kev and Joel would have been flying on a line close to where most pilots would have been stood Sunday to make their style work for them.  In fact Kev sometimes has the unnerving habit of standing behind the CD on Mickey's when he is racing  so that he can attack this line.

 

 

 

Interesting AJ,  I thought you had to stand in front of the CD?  When I practice I stand quite a way back but in comps I always stand infront of the CD which often makes me nervous if I try and fly in close!

 

I've often got my models screaming in the compression on my local slope but back off when I venture closer towards the edge.

 

Can you clarify where a pilot is allowed to stand with regards to the CDs position?

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isoaritfirst

I said earlier that I found it an interesting day. I know Kev's onboard line on this slope, punching out through the compression on the turn exits. Early in the day the sun position influenced my style into open em which around base b meant that the sun could be avoided. For my first 3 rounds the bases were strong and consequently open high em turns worked well for me. On base b it also meant that the turn exit was better angled to the crossed wind that often seemed to be blowing in my right ear. running back along the slope edge would have needed lots of weight.
By round 4 the wind and the lift had dropped significantly and still had occasional crossed elements. I ended up tightening the corners to keep the course short as the energy just didn't seem strong enough for making fast progress around large em turns. I also started increasing the bank angle to allow the model to exit downwards out of the bases and back onto the edge quickly. I also tried to run for longer in the edge compression. At the time the air was flat and staying close in seemed to be the best option. Earlier when flying the ems just hitting the edge compression for a small area just before each turn seemed to be very effective at punching the model speed upwards. It's perhaps debatable if running in and out of this sweet spot is actually a better way to gain energy than staying inside the compression for longer. I think if was, but of course for that to work you do need to have good energy out on the rest of the course.
Later the wind squared up, so running on the edge meant that the advantage of the shorter course and the lack of an upwind leg meant for some fast times, with the model constently having a good energy source, there was little need to try to minimize the turn losses, just get it back to the edge. Personally as the lift increased I went back to em mainly because I find it a more challenging and consequently a more rewarding way to fly. I left the hill feeling very happy with flying but was very aware that Greg's afternoon of running the ridge had been the better option. I think I would conclude that bank and yank is the best option when the wind is square on. Having to add lots of weight to make it work in crossed conditions is possibly where it falls down. High and open reversals may overcome some of the issues but you are then neither in the compression or flying a short course.

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isoaritfirst

I insist that pilots stand in front of me when I CD. I usually set up the center accordingly

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isoaritfirst

I should just say that I don't know if any of my thoughts were/are correct as it is very tricky to assess, but it does give an insight into the amount that I was thinking/doing on the day.

For any newbie it may or may not be interesting, just to know how complex f3f can be.

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abbof3f

Thanks very much Marky - sadly missed on the day with that Caldera R!!!!

Cheers,

Greg

just having a little breather greg over the xmas period....frank and i will be back down sunny wales soon 

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Clive Henry Jones

I said earlier that I found it an interesting day. I know Kev's onboard line on this slope, punching out through the compression on the turn exits. Early in the day the sun position influenced my style into open em which around base b meant that the sun could be avoided. For my first 3 rounds the bases were strong and consequently open high em turns worked well for me. On base b it also meant that the turn exit was better angled to the crossed wind that often seemed to be blowing in my right ear. running back along the slope edge would have needed lots of weight.

By round 4 the wind and the lift had dropped significantly and still had occasional crossed elements. I ended up tightening the corners to keep the course short as the energy just didn't seem strong enough for making fast progress around large em turns. I also started increasing the bank angle to allow the model to exit downwards out of the bases and back onto the edge quickly. I also tried to run for longer in the edge compression. At the time the air was flat and staying close in seemed to be the best option. Earlier when flying the ems just hitting the edge compression for a small area just before each turn seemed to be very effective at punching the model speed upwards. It's perhaps debatable if running in and out of this sweet spot is actually a better way to gain energy than staying inside the compression for longer. I think if was, but of course for that to work you do need to have good energy out on the rest of the course.

Later the wind squared up, so running on the edge meant that the advantage of the shorter course and the lack of an upwind leg meant for some fast times, with the model constently having a good energy source, there was little need to try to minimize the turn losses, just get it back to the edge. Personally as the lift increased I went back to em mainly because I find it a more challenging and consequently a more rewarding way to fly. I left the hill feeling very happy with flying but was very aware that Greg's afternoon of running the ridge had been the better option. I think I would conclude that bank and yank is the best option when the wind is square on. Having to add lots of weight to make it work in crossed conditions is possibly where it falls down. High and open reversals may overcome some of the issues but you are then neither in the compression or flying a short course.

I just try not to hit the hill......    :)

 

 

I think there is room here for the more experienced pilots to mentor us less experienced ones - what works, what doesn't, model set ups for different conditions etc. Perhaps in a seperate Topic... anyone want to give away their secrets?  

 

Clive.

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nucleardwarf

I just try not to hit the hill......    :)

 

 

I think there is room here for the more experienced pilots to mentor us less experienced ones - what works, what doesn't, model set ups for different conditions etc. Perhaps in a seperate Topic... anyone want to give away their secrets?  

 

Clive.

Yep - spend £1500+ on a new shiny model! :D

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ChrisInTheVale

I concur that these follow up discussions are massively interesting for those of us new to competition. I am sure some of us spent some of the day in awe/bewilderment at the difference in speed between those understanding how to adjust to the conditions and those of us just trying to complete the ten passes without cutting. Whilst I enjoyed the day a great deal - I was thrilled with my first round and disappointed that every subsequent one didn't match it. Discussions such as these may change the way we practise despite the realisation that there is absolutely no substitute for the experience of the competition day - with pressure on, people watching, buzzers sounding (or not).

 

My few "take-aways" from the weekend thus far are :

  • Reduce my elevator significantly - (over pulling and a tip-stall on a cut pointed that one out)
  • Practise what I intend to do when I have cut an EM, Bank and yank, reversal turn - (my up-wind panicked recovery of a Base B cut cost me a tip stall into the ground - Hooray for soft spongy grassy mounds! - no damage)
  • Keep a notebook of what I have set up and in what conditions. I have watched people like Mark R. do this religiously and I figure its time I started a log of what I learn works with my glider, on various slopes and in various conditions.

 

Anyway - all that was a long winded way of agreeing with Clive's sentiments - that these comments from the experienced pilots as to what they were thinking/ considering during the changing conditions we witnessed on Sunday - do add a great deal for us newbies to think about and work on. Thanks for the comments AJ, Mike and others- I hope we can keep discussions like these going!

 

Chris

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Ian F3F

Yep - spend £1500+ on a new shiny model! :D

I don't think that part's necessary. I've not got the most from my Merlin yet models like it are more than capable of getting you up there and even winning- probably more so than bashing the cheque book too often (tried that in the past).

 

  When you are putting the model in the right place- or at lest where you want it every time and hitting every turn.  Then the way to improve is spending big for that marginal improvement.

 

  But that's just my opinion, my take home from the race was to measure my control throws to make sure they are equal and practise/fly at all more.

 

Ian

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nucleardwarf

I don't think that part's necessary. I've not got the most from my Merlin yet models like it are more than capable of getting you up there and even winning- probably more so than bashing the cheque book too often (tried that in the past).

 

  When you are putting the model in the right place- or at lest where you want it every time and hitting every turn.  Then the way to improve is spending big for that marginal improvement.

 

  But that's just my opinion, my take home from the race was to measure my control throws to make sure they are equal and practise/fly at all more.

 

Ian

Meant as a touch of humour Ian - every model I have ever bought has been second-hand and win or lose I just enjoy flying. :thumbsup:

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