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Mark70

Recommend me an electric soarer

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Mark70

Flying mainly flat field via aerotow I am looking for an electric soarer for when the tug us not available. I am enjoying fling a cularis but am looking something bigger around the 4 m mark.

I have looked at the Thermik XL but it's been around a while so is thier anything better. Love the light soarer like the Ava but I want something a bit more robust for all year flying Paratech has a new model on the way but it's a bit more than I want to pay for a bare airframe at €1400 pre shipping

Any recommendations

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Rob Thomson

I recently purchased the Omnikron.

First flight today!

3 meter electric. Fully moulded - and all up under £550 fully kitted out.

Not flown it for long - but looks to be quote good :)

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Woodstock

Valenta have a few newer models around that size, but they are all a LOT more than the Thermik XL (which is still a really nice glider, not to be underrated because of it's age or price).  There is the 4m Carbonara (around EUR 1100), and the 4m Zefiros (around EUR 799).  The latter looks very much like the 3.7m Volcano (again, really nice - mine is very old but a faithful campaigner).  The Paritech Phyllix does look nice...., but the videos of the Carbonara make it look VERY impressive, I must say.

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Jef Ott

Thermik XL is a truly great model. Don't write it off because it has been about for a long time. Astounding penetration, amazing thermalling capability, great finish and built to last. Sold mine to get a lighter model... Miss it like crazy.

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satinet

Kind of heavy though

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Mark70

Some great thoughts guys really appreciated. Love the video of the Cabinara but cannot find much about it or a supplier. The Shadow looks good and is in the UK. Would it be aerobatic though?

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satinet

Some great thoughts guys really appreciated. Love the video of the Cabinara but cannot find much about it or a supplier. The Shadow looks good and is in the UK. Would it be aerobatic though?

 

Compared to an IC aerobatic model - no. Compared to a thermik XL - similar. 

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Woodstock

Thermik XL is a truly great model. Don't write it off because it has been about for a long time. Astounding penetration, amazing thermalling capability, great finish and built to last. Sold mine to get a lighter model... Miss it like crazy.

Mine sailed off into an Alpine valley a few weeks ago  :( ..  I JUST obscured it behind a section of hill on turning at the end of a run, lost 2.4 connection, and that was that  :wacko: ...

 

It is everything Jef says.  It turned out to be THE most suitable model to have at the Alps (electric fan on the front to get you out of trouble if necessary).  Great thermalling ability, particularly easy to circle in thermals, and the speed and strength to do speed runs and lots of rolls, inverted sill stuff, whatever.

 

With regard to weight, it is interesting to read the reports on the latest few XC events in the US.  Phillip Kolb, Larry Jolly, etc. are competing.  The "traditional" XC models (big fuse, deep chord wings) are being totally outclassed by F3J models that are ballasted up to the max 5 Kg.  Phillip et al are amazed at how little difference they see between these very heavy models, and standard versions in terms of ability to gain height.  Lightness is OK for zero-wind morning or evening conditions, but I'm not so sure about the rest of the time...

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Woodstock

Some great thoughts guys really appreciated. Love the video of the Cabinara but cannot find much about it or a supplier. The Shadow looks good and is in the UK. Would it be aerobatic though?

The Carbonara looks very impressive. Price is I believe around EUR 1100. Probably the best supplier is Jurgen Schmierer, but you need to phone him, his email account jammed up a few years ago (he does the models part-time) http://modellbau-schmierer.de/ .  Or, does Phil Hoegger still do Valenta (Glidermania)?

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isoaritfirst

I have not flown my Tragi Cluster electric very much, but recently I have managed to get some more stick time in with it. One thing that has come clearly to mind is lightness isn't whats needed on most days. Tragi electric doesn't have a simple ballast provision so I will buy it some larger batteries.

Probably 10mph wind on Saturday and trying to circle in thermals the model stopped everytime it faced into wind. Down trim cured it and height gain was better- but its harder to fly that way, ballast would have been the rigjht choice. Just enough to make the model fly smoothly and maintain its possition. 

Of course a light but ballastable model is good for all days but an unballastable light model - might be a handful on most days.

Unless you have a desire for flying on still sunny evenings - I wouldn't worry too much about looking for something very light.

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satinet

I'm not sure what you mean about "stopped" when it faced in to wind. The plane might well stop relative to the ground but you are flying a circle in a moving body of air, not against a fixed reference point on the ground.

 

something like a an f3j model is nice around 2.2- 2.5kg ish. Something like a thermik Xl is about 4kg - 5kg and just too heavy for normal flat field conditions.  More weight = more power train = more ££. 

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Woodstock

My std. glass Thermik XL e was 3.9 Kg all up.  At the Alps, TBH I would have preferred some ballast.

 

Imagine an F3J at 5 Kg as they did in the XC event  :blink:  !

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Jef Ott

Last month in very light evening airs, almost still in fact, a 2.6kg electric Xplorer gave a magnificent account of itself against a 1.9kg Tragi. In my opinion the heavier model had no disadvantage in any aspect, and was able to cover more sky. When lift was encountered, both signalled the lift and gained height equally.

 

My Thermik Excel weighed 3.525kg, but it's mass was only evident when it wasn't flying (ie carrying it to/from the launch/landing site).

 

Yes, lightness is a very much over-rated asset, probably promoted by those that need a way to justify the price tags on the models they buy or sell. In a competition yesterday, one of the hardest models to beat was an elderly Bingo, it's fat fuselage stuffed with lead to help it ride out the turbulence and defeat the 12mph breeze.

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isoaritfirst

Tom - yes perhaps I should just thermal back witth the wind, but it didn't feel like the right choice to me. I wanted to stay over an area that was producing lift and found it difficult until trimmed to fly "down".  Weight would have cured that.

The model that I have always found to be my most impressive thermal ship is my RCRCM Sigma with the F3B shorter wings on. Its a heavy model but never ceases to amaze just how effcient it is. Tragi defo needed ballast.

Its noticable on the slope as well often a model that is thrown off too light will fail to climb out very well, just stopping (relative to ground) a little bit more weight moves the model forward - increases air speed and lifts better, plus is much nicer to fly.

IMO Too light often look like kites instead of aircraft, climbing while appearing to go backwards, - much nicer to be flying forward, if only for the asthetics

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Mark70

Thanks for all the input guys. I am leaning towards the Shadow. A bit smaller than I want but looks good value and more importantly information on line

Seems I have missed a few second hand ones so will be looking to buy a new one after my holidays next month. first molded glider so no doubt will be asking for your help especially on the drive train to gain good aerobatic (for a glider)

In the meantime the Cularis will be out this evening in what looks like good weather

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satinet

Nice.

 

I think the shadow is exceptional value these days for what it is. 

 

I have a similar model (Xplorer2) and I run a geared in-runner on 3s for about 800 watts which is quite sprightly (big prop) with the model weighing about 2.3kg (I know it would fly a lot better if it was a couple of kg heavier...... :rolleyes: ). I went for a fairly hefty power setup as I felt it would give me several quick climbs and a sensible all round weight.  I didn't fancy chugging up to soaring height with a minimal setup for non contest flying. 

 

You probably want a trade off where you don't have so much power you have short motor run time on the battery, but enough to get you up.  However, if the fuselage is like my xplorer you can get pretty big batteries in though. You should be able to use stuff like the MVVS motors or hobbyking glider setups (good price I suspect). 

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EssexBOF

Best all round is the Shadow XT and value for money, need to fly my one more but have to many to choose from.

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