Jump to content

F3J 2015


Peter
 Share

Recommended Posts

Arrangements for Interglide 2105 are at an early stage but the date is in the Eurotour and FAI

calendars for the last weekend in June as usual. Interglide is organised by the BARCS committee but

relies, as usual, on members helping to do the work and not expecting 'someone' to do it for them.

Good to hear from Bob. A weekend of F5 and F3J is a good idea as more and more pilots are doing both.

As Wixy says the early May date is a problem because it clashes with a Eurotour and the date when I

usually run the South Midlands. The August date may be OK as there seems to be some doubt about the

exact dates of the F3J Euro Champs.

So now we have several comps at Marsh Gibbon, one at Wetlands which is a good start. What about South, west and east? No interest?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

  Other then that, I have a huge selection of random thoughts which take up more space & time then is available & would probably send everybody to sleep.

  Cheers, Bob

Don't worry Bob, here's my cure for insomnia!

 

F3J 2015, Where do we go from here?

It’s good to see several people have expressed willingness to run F3J competitions next year.

Saying so is the easy bit.

 

 Bitter experience tells me that getting a dozen or so people to commit to entering requires a soul destroying & dis-proportionate amount of time & effort, sorry for that negative statement, I’ll make it the last one…

 

Unfortunately, it is the same names/faces volunteering as in previous years, why is this? Is it the perceived problem of transporting & setting up the field kit?

 

Dave East & myself have been toying with an idea to simplify this.

 

Let’s look at what we CATS guys do on any of our flying days:-  (3 winches, 1 ELG).

  1. Turn up at field. (10-ish)
  2. Unload winches  a safe & sensible distance apart, in a line. (the flight line? but no rope…)
  3. Walk line out 150mtrs or less, set turnaround stake.
  4. Connect it all up & test.
  5. Position each individuals landing target.
  6. Prepare model(s)
  7. Check ones own countdown/timing widget, Dave & Chris use digital recorders, I use an old Nokia with the F3J timer on it.(can be played thru’ amplifier if required)

30 minutes?

 

So, what do we suggest? Let’s have a Summer Soaring Series of say 6 competitions, on Saturday or Sunday, at any available site(s), broadly speaking, to F3J rules.

  1. CD of the day & team determine flight line position/direction. Just one rope to mark it?
  2. Competitors set up winches as in 2 above.
  3. As in 5 above. Each group (we know who we are) keeps possession of one or two of the F3J landing tapes & discs, of which there are many in the F3J field kit.
  4. Models to be launched from up to 2 metres behind winch position.
  5. Safety corridor to be “virtual”
  6. Jury to be a thing of the past.
  7. No flyoff. ( I feel lots of South east hands being thrown up in horror!) the objective is to provide a full day of competition for everybody.
  8. Prizes? Chocolates & flowers on the day, nice shiny shield or Cup for series winner?
  9. Try to steal/borrow/copy esoaring comp’ timing/PA pod thingy, F3J stuff too bulky & time consuming…

 

   Mike.

 

ps, shoot me down if you wish, if you do, I'm off shopping at Hobbyking for electric stuff....   :unsure:

 

   M.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Mike

How about using Open rules? They meet nearly all your criteria and make a good introduction to F3J. I

don't think that the exact rules matter much so long as the comps are organised

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrators

Are you guys seriously saying your going to run a qualification process not to the proper F3J rules or am I missing something here. Lets just guess the landing points shall we  :blink:  :unsure:  :wacko:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Keep yer hair on Austin, I've made no mention of Team Qualification, just trying to make competition arrangements quicker & easier, hopefully to encourage more participation by the 75% of f3j pilots who are realistic about Team selection, and who, to quote Neil, "have to decide do they want a nice day out flying... ".  I think they, (we), do.   I was (perhaps incorrectly?) assuming RG, IG, & Nats would take care of the Team thing.

    

   The point of my post was to make the running of competitions easier, by doing away with the paraphernalia & bureaucracy which can give "outsiders" this impression of pothunting & winning at any cost.  It seems to work for the Peterborough winter series and the esoaring comps.

 


 "not to the proper F3J rules or am I missing something here. Lets just guess the landing points shall we"  :blink:  :unsure:  :wacko:

 

You obviously missed my point about entrants bringing their own F3J landing tape.

 

  Mike.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrators

Right, I thought you were thinking along the lines of a return to some sort of F3J league.

 

Can't see your suggestions working, people just won't travel for a one day meaningless competition.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrators

Then make it "the league".

 End of problem.

 

 M.

 

Then you must use the correct rules?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Austin, we both need to get out more!

 

  The only rules ignored are 'no safety corridor, no rope to mark pulley position, no jury'.

 

 Add 'em back in, bring back hand towing, (???), sit back & watch UK F3J perish!

 

 I'm outa here now.

 

 Anyone else got any comments, suggestions, ideas?

 

 'bye.

  Mike.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is no control off launch height ,with the correct power train you can zoom well above 200mtr .

Entered once decided its not for me ,seemed to have little to do with thermal soaring ,

But each to there own ,and you have to congratulate Brian on his efforts

How does the quote from Colin's piece on the Cluster, on the BARCS Home Page square with the above:-

 

The on board testing vario confirmed that the average launch height ranged from 205 -215 metres without any “dialing in” or ballast being used.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So given that I get lost in the plethora of letters and numbers used to describe the different disciplines and the question has been asked (somewhere) "how do we get new people into F3j?" (Or if it hasn't it should have been) hopefully my thoughts as someone wanting to do more with gliders will be useful.

At the moment I enjoy chucking an electric foamie around at my local flying club having got back into flying the last 12 months and I want to take it a bit further.

Now if I want to try my hand at something competitive I'm probably going to have a bash at something electric. Why? Because it's more accessible (or at least feels it) I can turn up with a pretty basic model and fly it (as I understand it and will try to next year). I don't need to invest in a winch, I also don't need a model costing £300 plus.

I guess what this leads to is cost and ease of entry.

If you want more people to fly f3j you've got to make it more accessible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 the question has been asked (somewhere "how do we get new people into F3j?" (Or if it hasn't it should have been).

"If you want more people to fly f3j you've got to make it more accessible".

You want accessible?

  Come fly with us CATS at Slimbridge Gloucestershire, but you do need a model which can be towed, doesn't need to be a mouldy, a half decent 100" with spoilers can (and has) been used successfully.

 

 Unfortunately we don't know where you're based, but I'll bet you'd get the same offer from any others near you.

 

  Ask, and you will get a result.

 

   Mike.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mike, I've had the same offers and that's great but those offers rely on coming on here and wanting to be part of it. I already have an interest, there's a 50:50 chance with me. It's people like the guys in my club who think you can't fly a glider in anything but flat calm that are "untapped potential".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Austin, we both need to get out more!

 

  The only rules ignored are 'no safety corridor, no rope to mark pulley position, no jury'.

 

 Add 'em back in, bring back hand towing, (???), sit back & watch UK F3J perish!

 

 I'm outa here now.

 

 Anyone else got any comments, suggestions, ideas?

 

 'bye.

  Mike.

Last year I entered one of the leauge comps held at the Malvern Soaring assoiciation; I went along just to make up the numbers and to have a nice day out flying my model and had a good day of relaxed thermal flying.
It was very well run but what a lot of work for Mike setting everything up; do we really need two computors, printer and generator, with a line of speakers just for a league comp?
This year I entered all 4 of the Midland esoaing comps and had a good time at all of them. Cliff Hanman ran all of these and to very high standard 
These are much simpler and could be run with a clock, calculator and loud hailer, if the someone did the matrix the night before.
I would like to see a Midland F3J series, but like most of us dont want to organise it, two at MG and two at MSA would be good.
The F3B people have done well to keep going, and the F3F guys
 I will support Mike if he puts on a comp and dont mind if it is a simpler format, I dont like fly offs they may be needed for some events but are not needed for the league, if people travel they want a days flying'
I do put in something to model flying I publish a news letter each week
As for team selection, We need to get the league sorted first.
I am willing to travel 2 hours to a comp
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think we are entering the debate for two types of comp. Remember the F3J League under discussion is actually a BMFA league (debated here as the only publicly accessable online forum) and as such has to be run to a level that the BMFA SFTC will accept, that is to the rules (with UK variations).

 

BARCS also runs an F3J league and if deemed simpler to run and as long as the flying rules are adhered to and safety  considerations taken into account then I suspect the scores would be acceptable for inclusion, so a Midlands league  is possible. Currently the scores are derived from the BMFA League, exclusive of overseas events.

 

Having said that I would personally advocate comps being run to the UK variation rules, so as to be acceptable for the widest possible purpose and encourage participation of all current fliers.

 

G

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Running small thermal soaring competition at local level does not require a great amount of equipment. All that is necessary is a flight line with spots, a scoring system ( manual or computer) and a method of timing the slots. In this respect F3J is no different from any other type of thermal soaring

competition and hasn't changed since the 'good old days' of BARCS Opens.

Bigger competitions obviously require a longer flight line with more spots and more speakers on the PA system. The scoring also becomes a much bigger task so a computer makes life easier.

Equipment is not the reason that people are reluctant to organise competitions, it is an excuse for notwanting to make the effort.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Peter

Your comment of - "Equipment is not the reason that people are reluctant to organise competitions, it is an excuse for not wanting to make the effort" - is neither true nor fair

As an ex CD I was fully aware that I had the responsibility of, not only complying with the rules, but doing EVERYTHING else for competitors - checking insurance, receiving payment of entry fees, providing details of how to get to the venue, explaining local rules at the pilots briefing, settling disputes fairly and immediately, checking for overfies, landings-out and many other necessities, checking the results, placings and winners and runners up scores,obtaining prizes, awarding them on the day, writing up a fair and unbiased report of the comp, clearing up the mess  made by competitors who couldn't wait to get away and refused to help in the clearup.......... not to mention most comps now require a PA system that has to be put out and taken in, these days also an automatic, computer based and non-stop working time, slot start, slot finish and overfly system to be used on the that PA........and that's just what I can remember off the top of my head......

 

Not only that, there is a far more important reason - not excuse - that its hard to find people prepared to organise and CD a comp is that as CD the buck literally stops with you, you are an unpaid referee who will NEVER hear the end of it if you make just one mistake on the day that affects the running of the comp and - god forbid - the final placings - that's why people are reluctant to organise comps 

You've been a CD, you know this, and so  should be ashamed of what you've just said - it's simply an unfair statement  

 

Pete Beadle

BARCS1702
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a motor cycle MP3 player coming from Hong Kong, also have two Tanoy speakers.
I will do a test with these, 
I have run a few club thermal comps, not that hard if everybody does their bit to help.
Phil

BARCs, MSA and SCSA

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Pete for proving my point. It is not equipment which prevents the running of competitions.

As you correctly point out, CDing involves all sorts of work and some hassle. Nothing has changed, it

always has been the same.

Thankfully some people are prepared accept the responsibility and to put up with this in order to keep our sport going whilst too many just want to sit back and let others do it for them.

Now, lets get back to finding a way of organising competitions instead of finding reasons why it cannotbe done

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.