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chiloschista

Trisel - tailles, heavy, heavier, eco, volcanic ...

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chiloschista

Hi ensemble,

 

it is some time now I'm building those planks to experiment airfoils, wing geometry, mould buildings, foam cutting, elastoflaps etc.

 

The last one came out of the mould just today: Trisel #5, the Eco-Trisel.

It is made of 200g/m² flax, satin fabric.

I liked the idea of doing a vegetal based fabric fuselage, as a little satisfaction about non petroleum based things.

At first I would like to use vegetal based epoxy also, but it takes one week to cure (yes, one week!).

So one thing at a time.

 

Laying those fabrics is not really easy. Wetting it is the most difficult part, because they seems always dry, so epoxy amount has to be monitored carefully.

 

I tried for the first time a "green trim", to avoid bubbles at joinings, when closing the mould...

... and discovered it is so hard to cut. I destroyed my hands doing that (me little crybaby :P ), and I have right, good tools.

 

I did not use any gelcoat. The surface has some pinholes, as the fabrics tend to absorb a lot. The next one will have a transparent gelcoat base.

 

At the end I am almost satisfied of this experiment:

- I learned something new

- I have an Eco, non petroleum based plane (not really, epoxy is still petroleum based). Am I the first ? :D

- the look of that plane is really nice. I will leave it naturally

 

P1030699.JPG

 

P1030700.JPG

 

P1030698.JPG

 

Best regards,

Ric

 

P.s.: I have nothing against petroleum and will continue to build fiberglass and carbon fiber planes, but I like to have an alternative ;)

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isoaritfirst

very nice idea.

 

For completely green credentials, perhaps you could mould the next one around a carrot. :D

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chiloschista

very nice idea.

 

For completely green credentials, perhaps you could mould the next one around a carrot. :D

Pssttt! That was a secret ... :ph34r:

 

Thanks!

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Tilman Baumann

Looks pretty.

I can imagine that together with highly polished lacquered wood veneer wings.

Basalt is not petroleum based. Glass neither.

But they have lots of energy embedded.

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chiloschista

Was thinking at a wing bagged with the same material, but that's a cool idea also, thanks.

Btw this fuselage is the heaviest: 160g, when the other ones range from 100g to 120g.

Flax is really heavy, but incredibly stiff also.

I did one layer straight, a second layer 45° bias and a third one straight, but only in the nose.

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chiloschista

... and after the previous blunt object, the last one is the Volcanic_Trisel (prototype #6)

 

P1030702.JPG

 

P1030701.JPG

 

P1030703.JPG

 

Fabric is basalt this time, yet another non petroleum based non carcinogen material  :) 

Fuselage is done with a first layer of 110g/m² plain, a second layer of 220g/m² twill and a third one of 220g/m² twill on 45° bias.

Despite what the seller told me, it is very easy to wet and I did use about 1/3 resin compared to the flax one and 2/3 of the fiberglass ones.

Basalt is heavier than fiberglass, but very thin (obviously ...) and this ended being the lightest one so far: 100g

It is nicely stiff, not as much as the flax one, but more than enough.

 

The surface is well better, but I'm still dealing with a good solution to close the mould. The joining is really strong, but not nice ... mhmm ...

The problem arise only because those will be left natural. Painting it would be easier (holy putty).

 

Now I should eventually built another couple of wings :o

The Eco will probably be set as a Brick2, with a weight around 1kg or more and a geometry more suited to speed.

The Volcanic idea is to build a very light elliptical wing, done in wood (ribs etc), goal being to stay under 600g for light conditions.

 

Learning new things makes me so happy and having still so much to learn I know I will always be happy  :D 

 

Suggestions about closing the mould, geometry, airfoils etc will be welcome.

 

Ric

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Tilman Baumann

Where did you find the light basalt fabric. I can only find heavy stuff around 200+ g.

Basalt is great stuff. Almost as good as carbon, but way cheaper. And you still get that black poser look.

PS: You can colour the white microbaloon paste with some black pigments. It should become almost invisible on the black basalt.

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chiloschista

PS: You can colour the white microbaloon paste with some black pigments. It should become almost invisible on the black basalt.

 ... it was so easy :( , thanks for that suggestion!

Will add some pigments to my next order.

 

But more urgent than joining mix color is the joining itself that I have to improve (look side, strength is good).

I would like to build a couple of Foka4 fuselage with those materials: no mistakes allowed B)

Those two were build just to train the technique with new stuffs.

 

I can get basalt from Suter Kunststoffe, which sells worldwide.

They sells mainly R&G products, but seems in Germany basalt is not sold by R&G.

R&G did have a small pack of Super Sap bio epoxy also, but seems they no more sell it.

SuterKunstoffe only sells it by big amounts.

Ric

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chiloschista

Hi ensemble,

wondering what to do with the two last fuselages I came out with a new wing design.

 

Volcanic%2BTrisel%2B%235%2Bd.jpg

The previous Trisels are flying well, but general drag and efficiency could be improved.
But how to do it?

Hot wire cut out of discussion, so a mould or a simple wood structure?
The last one!

 

Volcanic%2BTrisel%2B%235%2Ba.jpg

The basalt fuselage is very light, so this could be an attempt to the lightest of the Trisels, with a weight under 500g, for light conditions.

The task was to find a way for such an elliptical wing and that's the result.
Nice to have 3D CAD/CAM tools :popcorn:

I'm considering to cover the whole wing with a layer of light basalt, but still not decided.

Ric

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oipigface

Hi ensemble,

wondering what to do with the two last fuselages I came out with a new wing design.

 

Volcanic%2BTrisel%2B%235%2Bd.jpg

I'm considering to cover the whole wing with a layer of light basalt, but still not decided.

 

 

Basalt?? Should make the performance volcanic!

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chiloschista

Basalt?? Should make the performance volcanic!

I really hope that :)

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chiloschista

The building started already.

Ribs cut with the CNC.

 

P1030735.JPG

 

This let me go back 40+ years ago, when I started a Topsy: what a nice feeling :wub:

 

Back to present!

Here are a few pics of the build:

 

P1030739.JPG

 

P1030742.JPG

 

P1030744.JPG

 

P1030745.JPG

 

More to come.

Ric

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oipigface

I really hope that :)

 

Sorry, Ric,

     My last was perhaps a little too subtle for a non-native English speaker. 'Basalt' in English (as far as I know) means a kind of volcanic rock. You aren't planning to give your pride and joy a covering made of rock, are you?

     Cheers

     John

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chiloschista

Sorry, Ric,

     My last was perhaps a little too subtle for a non-native English speaker. 'Basalt' in English (as far as I know) means a kind of volcanic rock. You aren't planning to give your pride and joy a covering made of rock, are you?

     Cheers

     John

Sorry for what, John? Nothing to be sorry, I really like some humor :P

 

By the way, I guess I got it the right way: basalt is a volcanic rock and there is fabric made in basalt.

You probably missed that I already made a basalt fabric Trisel fuselage, the black one.

I did made one in flax fabric also.

There is a post above in this thread.

I like experimenting new stuffs and I received a sample of vegetal epoxy. I would like to do another fuselage with this resin and maybe the flax fabric, so an almost vegetal plane ... and no, I'm not vegetarian :lol: :lol: :lol:

Best regards,

Ric

 

P.s.: the vegetal epoxy requires a week to cure ... yes, a week!

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Tilman Baumann

How are you going to skin this ribbed wing?

Fill the gaps with foam and sand it down to the ribs? Or clad it in balsa and skin that?

Or are you shooting for a mold even?

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chiloschista

How are you going to skin this ribbed wing?

Fill the gaps with foam and sand it down to the ribs? Or clad it in balsa and skin that?

Or are you shooting for a mold even?

I'm covering it with 1mm balsa sheets right now. The main problem is holding with the right washout (none).

Then I will decide if bag it under vacuum or just keep it old school, probably the last one.

 

Yes, I'm wondering building a mould, but not before having tried it on slope.

Ric

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oipigface

Sorry for what, John? Nothing to be sorry, I really like some humor :P

 

By the way, I guess I got it the right way: basalt is a volcanic rock and there is fabric made in basalt.

You probably missed that I already made a basalt fabric Trisel fuselage, the black one.

I did made one in flax fabric also.

There is a post above in this thread.

I like experimenting new stuffs and I received a sample of vegetal epoxy. I would like to do another fuselage with this resin and maybe the flax fabric, so an almost vegetal plane ... and no, I'm not vegetarian :lol: :lol: :lol:

Best regards,

Ric

 

P.s.: the vegetal epoxy requires a week to cure ... yes, a week!

 

My ignorance is boundless. I suppose fibreglass is made from sand, so there's no reason why fibres shouldn't be made of all kinds of other geological stuff, as long as it will melt.

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Tilman Baumann

My ignorance is boundless. I suppose fibreglass is made from sand, so there's no reason why fibres shouldn't be made of all kinds of other geological stuff, as long as it will melt.

Basalt fibre is brilliant stuff and it's about time it gets more recognised in the modelling world. :)

It looks similar to carbon and it's material properties, while not as good as carbon, are more like carbon than anything else.

But the price is only a fraction.

 

Considering that carbon makes up a significant portion of the price of performance gliders, basalt might make them a lot more accessible to most of us.

 

I would choose basalt over carbon for most purposes. Except perhaps if weight is the absolute primary aspect.

Light weaves of basalt are still hard to find and they are not quite as strong as carbon so you need to lay them on a bit heavier.

 

If anything, it offers poser carbon look for the masses. :lol:

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Tilman Baumann

I'm covering it with 1mm balsa sheets right now. The main problem is holding with the right washout (none).

Then I will decide if bag it under vacuum or just keep it old school, probably the last one.

 

Yes, I'm wondering building a mould, but not before having tried it on slope.

Ric

Probably a sensible idea. But that means you will have to build it strong with strong spars and such. :)

Nothing wrong with old school really. :D

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chiloschista

Basalt fibre is brilliant stuff and it's about time it gets more recognised in the modelling world.

 

 

Am I pusing the envelope :P ?

 

 

 

I would choose basalt over carbon for most purposes. Except perhaps if weight is the absolute primary aspect.

Light weaves of basalt are still hard to find and they are not quite as strong as carbon so you need to lay them on a bit heavier.

 

A heavier fabric means a thinner layer. You really should have a look at that fuselage: it is really thin and better than a heavier fiberglass one.

I could build one with some more layers. I suspect it will become a winner.

 

 

If anything, it offers poser carbon look for the masses. :lol:

 

Not really. I love its goldish transparency.

Carbon is deep black.

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