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Graham_C

Tragi-dy

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Graham_C

Sadly, I had a battery failure (a salutary lesson in itself) on my Tragi while flying at Pole Cottage on Saturday and she went in HARD. Big thanks to Les for extricating the buried remains of the nose and carrying the fus/middle wing section up a long steep climb!

Not a panel undamaged and the fuselage has at least two breaks. Both wing joiners snapped, damage to centre section, both tip panels, snapped tail plane joiners - it looked a bit scary and I couldn't bring myself to look too closely. Fortunately Mike Evans (isoaritfirst) was on hand with some sound advice and reassurance that I could fix and fly the stricken model. I haven't had chance (or the desire!) to look at the damage properly yet, but I will soon - and post a few photos.

A bit of poking around on t'internet found some glass cloth and epoxy, and a quick email to Heino located a couple of new wing joiners. All ordered so now I HAVE to fix it!

I'll be looking for a bit of guidance and advice carrying out repairs, although I read through evad's Typhoon thread and found a lot of ideas there.

Thanks in advance!

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wookman

There has been a good bit of excellent mouldy repair work documented on the forum over the years. I don't think you will be wanting for advice or encouragement. Good luck with the repairs.

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pete beadle

Hi GrahamC

First of all - my sympathy

Can I suggest the next stage could/should be to approach your club committee and see if they will purchase the 3 CD pack by RadiCarbonArt, which covers most of what you now need to be doing, and that they purchase this pack as a club asset?

This is what I have done recently, and the ISA has gladly purchased this CD pack to be borrowed and used by all club members in the same position as myself and yourself, treating it as a club asset that will be helpful and, hopefully, will be available to be used by many, maybe all, ISA club members

Although I'm sure you are aware, Mr Naton's presentation skills are not of the best, the CD's are packed with useful hints and tips and clearly show, visually and in depth what can be done by the average club flyer, more importantly, removing the need to ask for help  again and again, something I know that puts off many who are in your position

I know that help will be freely given by BARCS members on this forum but perhaps this would be a better first/next step for those who "don't want to be a bother"(?) 

Either way, good luck with your repairs, I assure you that the first step, getting up the courage to start, IS the hardest part

(BTW I have no personal or financial interest in RadioCarbonArt)

Regards

Pete

BARCS1702

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isoaritfirst

Great to hear that Heino has responded with the joiners.

Here's a plan; It has a completion date on it of a week. should take you a couple of hours, 3 tops once you have the bits.

Fuselage repair is easiest and the place to start and the rear breaks are first.

Remove the inner snakes and check if outers are ok. I don't recall how the elevator snake is connected to the bellcrank, worst case cut an access hatch to remove it. Don't put cyano onto the fuselage with the snakes in place.

You wil need some thin penetrating Cyano and some kicker.

Poke all proud bits of epoxy back into place, or second best slightly into structure.

A gentle application of localised heat fron a hot air gun or similar can help soften them if there are particularly stubbon bits. Weave any strands together with a very small screwdriver. 

Then tack with small drops of cyano - careful where it runs too, you don't want it into the elevator bellcrank.

Check its straight - visually check should be enough, then wet out with more cyano.

Have the kicker on hand to stop any  that threatens to run further than needed, but try not to use if you can. Once the joint is dry a quick squidge of kicker will ensure that no cyno is still running around inside the fuselage.

Do the two rear fuselage breaks first, as these will be easiest.

Once it all feels solid enough to handle, sand with a ***** file around the breaks. Take off all the gell coat and down to as thin as you dare, flare the depth of the joint back to the gell coat over a 2" - 3" area.

Skinning epoxy and lightweight glass cloth will be a good match to the Tragi's original construction.

My prefered and easy method;

Cut a length of cloth around 20mm wide and 300mm long, place it on some newspaper and pour epoxy over it and gently spread it over the cloth. leave it to stand for a few minutes until it all looks wet. Then wipe off excess with a credit card, then reposition on dry newspaper and cover with another sheet and squeeze/blott the rest of the epoxy out. get it as dry as you can. Then wrap as if using electrical tape around the break. Fare out at each end and double/triple layer over break.

Now you need to apply some pressure and some gentle heat. I have used what ever I have to hand ove rthe years from more tape to plastic bags full of warm water. Wrapping with tape will often leave ridges, once dry but they can easily be sanded out.

Definatley use some low level heat, this helps the epoxy spread/penetrate  and also to set nice and hard.

 Make a Hot box from a few towels and a few pieces of wood and put something in there to keep it all warm.

Oil filled rad, light bulb, bucket of hot water, what ever you have -

 

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satinet

Hi GrahamC

First of all - my sympathy

Can I suggest the next stage could/should be to approach your club committee and see if they will purchase the 3 CD pack by RadiCarbonArt, which covers most of what you now need to be doing, and that they purchase this pack as a club asset?

This is what I have done recently, and the ISA has gladly purchased this CD pack to be borrowed and used by all club members in the same position as myself and yourself, treating it as a club asset that will be helpful and, hopefully, will be available to be used by many, maybe all, ISA club members

Although I'm sure you are aware, Mr Naton's presentation skills are not of the best, the CD's are packed with useful hints and tips and clearly show, visually and in depth what can be done by the average club flyer, more importantly, removing the need to ask for help  again and again, something I know that puts off many who are in your position

I know that help will be freely given by BARCS members on this forum but perhaps this would be a better first/next step for those who "don't want to be a bother"(?) 

Either way, good luck with your repairs, I assure you that the first step, getting up the courage to start, IS the hardest part

(BTW I have no personal or financial interest in RadioCarbonArt)

Regards

Pete

BARCS1702

:o Has he okayed the discs being using on a lend/borrow basis? I don't think he will make a lot of money out of his DVDs if clubs are buying them to share round. Presumably no copies will be made at least.  That's one of the most amazing things I've heard in a long while. 

Edited by satinet

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pete beadle

Hi all

When I see a statement like "That's one of the most amazing things I've heard in a long while" from Mr Satinet I sometimes wonder if he re-reads his own comments before he posts them on this forum - Now if you want something amazing, unbelievable even, I'd like to refer members to Mr Satinet's posting under "Mill Hill" earlier in this forum -

Quote "Daily Mail Headline  - Deadly drones confiscated by the police. Ban ALL reaction events, except horse riding and conkers, forever!!!!  Deport anyone found with death drone to bingo bongo land. Princess Di something....something.  Probably.  Or just keep flying" - yes, amazingly he posted that!!!!!

It is my understanding that copyright law is only invoked when a person intends to profit from said copying. The purchaser of the product can lend it to ANYONE he wishes, as long as that person does not profit, at the expense of the seller, it is solely a loan transaction and completely separate from the initial purchase. Legally, the club is a person, and as long as they don't charge for the loan, no law is being broken. I wonder how he views public libraries doing this sort of thing...........

Regards

Pete

BARCS1702 

 

.

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isoaritfirst

Ok, probably more a moral issue than a legal one, I'm sure we would lend out to our mates if they found themselves in need. -

I would and wouldn't think twice about it, although if I'm honest, I wouldn't suggest it over the www. and I winced slightly when Pete did.

I suffer from Double standards - and susspect that most of us do.

But lets move back to sticking A to B.. much more productive than bickering.

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satinet

Yes Mr Beadle, I posted a clear bit of satire about the ridiculous over reaction that took place over the Mill Hill incident.  As you might know the situation was reported in several newspapers in an over the top manner (a well know Daily Mail situation).

Maybe Mr Beadle should educate himself about the Public Libraries and Museums Act 1964. If he doesn't Mr Beadle might further display his level of ignorance.   Just as if libraries don't pay royalties!

Tightness level:

ducks_arse_zpslbyzs1hl.jpg

 

 

Edited by satinet

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Graham_C

There has been a good bit of excellent mouldy repair work documented on the forum over the years. I don't think you will be wanting for advice or encouragement. Good luck with the repairs.

​Thanks Wookman, appreciate the good luck!

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Graham_C

Hi GrahamC

First of all - my sympathy

​Thanks for the sympathy Pete, I take a fairly philosophical approach - what goes up must some down, sometimes not in the planned manner!

I may just invest in a video - they look interesting.

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Spoons

Just wondering what the standard of flying at ISA was and why the club would need to purchase a copy of the DVD ?

There must be a whole lot of repair work going on to warrant that !

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Graham_C

@isoaritfirst

Thanks for the extensive reply Mike. I have received the skinning epoxy and cloth, but having been out of building for so long, I need to get the cyano and kicker. Also need to dig out the Dremel and associated tools - can't remember where I put them :lol:

I see many hours of pondering - a week might be a bit tight but agree that a time limited approach is a way to make it happen.

Hope to see you on the slope soon!

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oipigface

Peel ply is very good stuff. Put it on the top of layups and the epoxy soaks through. 

http://www.ptm-w.com/index.asp?pgid=204

It is true that epoxy soaks through peel ply, but it needs to have something to soak into if the peel ply is to be fully effective. So as well as peel ply, you should get some breather cloth. (Neither is very expensive.) There is a recent thread of mine called 'Wing skin repair' on this forum, which shows how it can be used in moulding new skin sections. 

I should blush to mention it, but the repairs shown in the post recently survived a 31.xx F3F run! 

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isoaritfirst

Stop pondering Graham, It's broken already you can't make it any worse. 

Penn models own penetrating cyano seems pretty good, Zap seems to have lost some of its go recently - probably had all the noctious stuff removed.

I have never used any peel ply etc - I'm sure its good stuff, but can't say that I have felt the need with the work I have done. Which is often done with whatever I have around at the time.

I do however dry any cloth out as much as practical before applying, Putting down dry(ish) cloth does need pressure and heat to make it stick, but end result is a nice and light repair. 

Worth also buying some Cyano remover. Very useful if you get a run across a bit that isn't broken....

 

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satinet

It is true that epoxy soaks through peel ply, but it needs to have something to soak into if the peel ply is to be fully effective. So as well as peel ply, you should get some breather cloth. (Neither is very expensive.) There is a recent thread of mine called 'Wing skin repair' on this forum, which shows how it can be used in moulding new skin sections. 

I should blush to mention it, but the repairs shown in the post recently survived a 31.xx F3F run! 

​True, what I do is put foam on and weight on top of that. But I have had really good results with it. 

my layup would be - cloth/peel ply/foam/weight or strapping. Foam soaks up excess resin and the peel ply leaves you a good surface to work on. Blocks of foam work well as a breather if it's say inside a fuselage and it's a compound shape.  I see what you are saying about a breather layer as a cloth. That would work nicely say round a fuselage.

 

I'll put a photo up if I can find one. 

Edited by satinet

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Graham_C

@oipigface @satinet thanks for the replies.

"I should blush to mention it, but the repairs shown in the post recently survived a 31.xx F3F run! "  wow, can't wait 'til it does a 31.xx :lol:

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Graham_C

A closer look has shown that the tip panels and tailplane are relatively unharmed ans simple to fix.

Centre section and fuselage is a bit different though!

Wing top 1.JPG

Wing bottom.JPG

Joiner box.JPG

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Graham_C

Looking forward to the challenge!

Fus1.JPG

Boom.JPG

Tail.JPG

Nose.JPG

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isoaritfirst

If you think it would help you could cut a sizeable hole in the wing seat. Cut neatly it could just be pieced back later

 

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