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Is there any help near Shrewsbury?


Martin O
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Hello. I am new to this forum and new to dlg but experinced in many disciplines of rc, including gliders of various sorts. A friend and myself have recently bought a 1.5m dlg each (Throw It) and after half a dozen outings are having tremendous fun but for us right now, 30m is a good launch, so we know there is a lot yet to learn. My question ( and I hope this is the right place to ask) is a plea to anyone within reasonable distance of Shrewsbury Shropshire that we could perhaps meet up with and gain some advice on our techniques and set up. We realise that the competitions would be a good place to learn but unfortunately we can't make the next one on the 26th. Our knowledge so far has come from the internet and experimentation, we get a little better each time we fly but really would appreciate some help

My thanks to any responses

Martin

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Hello Martin,

You're in the right place!

30 metres sounds about right for your experience so far.  I don't get over 40 very often myself and I've been at this for 9 years - I'm happy if I get above half way down the list in our contests but I enjoy competing very much.

Have you seen this one?

I think it's quite helpful but it will only get you to 60m if you have above average talent hiding in you at the moment!

Let's hope you can get to an event or find someone else nearby to speed up your learning.

Good luck!

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Hello Martin,

I don't live near Shrewsbury. But my parents live not too far away in Albrighton, near Cosford. No plans to visit at present, but likely I will be up that way at some point in the next couple of months. Suspect if you get out practicing before then I might be learning from you!

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Many thanks for the responses. We have seen the video mikef and are trying hard to emulate the technique. We took a number of action style photos which was fun https://www.dropbox.com/sh/9bbvntddebs8ogb/AAAvmPtdPOsrSDMwsifZHD00a?dl=0 The idea was to help analyse. Seems so far there is a black hole of dlg enthusiasts in the West Midlands. Perhaps we can start making amends for that!

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The pictures are good.  You are both keeping your arm straight through the launch - that's good.

I would say that your next step is for both to get the right arm further back.  In many of the pictures, you could almost draw a line along the wing and the shoulders.  You need to keep the model further behind you until the snap-through.  Try using your head to lead the turn by looking over your left shoulder -I find my head seems to pull me round in some way.  I sometimes glimpse the fin of the model over my left shoulder during a launch.  Try to stay coiled until your left foot plants for launch then snap through.

Don't try to put too much power in, just concentrate on technique at first.  I also think it helps to think of your right arm and the model as a 'conker on a string' - you 'throw the conker' with your shoulder so snap that through as fast as you can at the crucial moment.

The gent with the red wing:  Your unusual tip grip may be tilting the model 'right tip down' - I assume that your fingers are more comfortable this way - consider tilting the peg in future installs to see how that feels.

If only there was a field south of Birmingham near the M40, we could have a central 'come and try it' and 'teach-in' meeting.  I would be happy to attend.  Can anybody help?  

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Really appreciate you taking time to look at the photos and give advice mikef. It makes perfect sense about the snap and shall work on that next time out. Mine is the red model and the reason I use the fingers you see is because my index finger seems shorter than most and thought it better to use two fingers nearer the same length. But happy to try anything. A meet south of Birmingham is sn excellent idea. Many thanks for your support. 

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If only there was a field south of Birmingham near the M40, we could have a central 'come and try it' and 'teach-in' meeting.  I would be happy to attend.  Can anybody help?  

I would be happy to come along as well if we can find somewhere, maybe have a winter training session or two as we haven't had one of those for a while.

As for locations there is Upton-Upon-Severn or Twywell, there would however be a cost involved in having either field.

Upton is a bit of a trek for most but doable if the weather is looking really good.

Twywell is probably a bit more central and might attract a bigger turnout.

Just checked the distances and there is only about 4 miles difference between the two for me:thumbsup:

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Fellas,

I am by no means in much of a position to help with launch technique as I have only been dlging for two years, but would be happy to help where I can if we could find some where to fly near Stoke on Trent, which is about half way. I live near Buxton.

 Looking at the photos, as other have already said you need to get your arms further back.  However in photo 22 I see your tong is perfectly positioned :0)

 

regards

mike c

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On behalf of the Peterborough MFC, we would be most happy to host a' DLG How -To' at our local Ferry Field on Tuesday and Friday from 1200- dusk or at the River Nene 100 acre site at any convenient time to all. The downside alas is that we are 2 hrs away from Shrewsbury. I have built a Thowt for a junior and am aware of the capability of this model ....MikeF we would appreciate your august presence for this event as of the latest Altis measurements, I am at best, a 35m launcher suffering the classic restrictions of a 72 yr morphology,

Regards Ian

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I really appreciate all the offers of help and hope that inspite of distances something can happen. I'm interested Ian what your thoughts are on the Throwt capability. We are already considering an upgrade.

Arms further back for us this weekend!

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Martin,

I put a Thowt  put together for a junior and I thought it was  good value for money, bur I prefer the CZ price before UK import. (rcgliders@seznam.cz) .Quality was reasonable with a slightly misplaced tail hold down fixing otherwise no great issues. Weight came out at 245gm rudderless.
The model is manufactured by Ondrej Rezler, who I am told is a schoolmaster and kits the Thowt in what spare time he has. This is the model and its latest incarnation, the Maat, that  he flew in the 2015 World Champs. The CZ teams finish position, from memory was 17th one place ahead of  Team GBR who were flying Snipe/Stream NXT/Validol. So Thowt/Matt performance in the right hands speaks for itself.
Hope we can arrange a fly in but it depends on getting somebody who knows what they are doing  to turn out on a flyable day to instruct.
You say that you are seeking to upgrade. Might be a good idea to hold off until you can see how well you can launch a fellow flyers glider. I have  5 dlg’s and they are all fairly similar on launch height. I am tempted to observe that for my admittedly poor launch capability, there is no advantage for any one model . There will be many who will disagree with this conclusion as it prevents you forking out for the next ‘must have’.
I have attempted to compare models by measuring sink rate using an Altis by differentiating the height /time data and  smoothing the result. Alas the scatter on this method was almost + or – 20% and I have given up on this.  Either the transducer resolution is poor or still air does not exist.

Regards Ian

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Richard Swindells

At the world championships I was flying a stream NXT that I received only a matter of days before we set off. I had a couple of one hour sessions with it in the UK and about 1/2 hour on the sticks in Croatia before the competition began. I ended up flying it for every round in both the warm up event (122 pilots - I was one of the 4 pilots to get a perfect score) and the World championships themselves (88 best pilots in the world, I came 4th dropping only turn-around time in the fly-off) 

So after only 2 1/2 hours on the sticks of the NXT I decided to fly it in place of my favorite model (the original stream that I had won every event I had entered over the previous 12 months with..) it really is an amazing model, a significant improvement in every aspect (strength, weight, performance, launch-height, cruise and min sink ) over anything I have flow before.... so I would take a pinch of salt with anyone comparing performance with a Throwt.

Having said that, the Throwt is an excellent introduction to DLG and F3K..., probably the cheapest model that I would consider a full-blown "Proper" DLG. I cannot understand how the manufacturer makes any profit at the price it goes for (around £170 if you buy direct)

Comparing launch heights, I do not think differences really stand out for launchers who managed around 35-45 meters. with drag being the square of speed, things become a bit more obvious for pilots who have the ability to launch 55m +

In calm air with my previous model, I could reach about 62-65 meters on an all out launch, with the nxt I could touch 68+ regularly (in competitions you very rarely get the opportunity for these as you are normally having to concentrate on other times and more often than not, maximise the distance you throw rather than the height.). That is an advantage of about 10 seconds in calm conditions or 5 seconds when the air is turbulent. I think the throwt will make 55m launches, but it does not have the strength in the wings to take repeated "gorilla" throws.

So my point is, if you are throwing 50m+ then you will notice the difference in a high end model, lower than that and it will not be so obvious.

Sink rate is also important in calm conditions. I have attached a graph taken from my NXT to give you an idea of what can be achieved in calm conditions... unless the slope of a graph is as straight as this, then you are not in "dead-air" and cannot make reasonable comparisons. When I was last flying a bagged wing model (tabooGT) about 8 years ago, we were looking at 2:20 at being exceptional calm/dead air performance. With modern molded models we are getting 3:30 + in the same conditions.

Finally if you are competing, one of the biggest differences you will see between the top pilots and regular competitors is how far & low they are willing to travel. Some lift is easy to spot, but very difficult to reach.. other times the speed that you can get out of sink, rather than the lift you find will make the difference.

If you are flying for fun & for sport, 40-50m throws and average flight times around 1:30 in calm air, then you are not going to notice a huge difference in performance between the throwt and a high end model (except for durability - modern full-carbon, milled rohacell core wings are bullet-proof!).. may be an extra 10-20-30 seconds on your calm air flight times and 10ish seconds on your turbulent air times

If you are competing, where you are falling a few seconds short of a target time, or consistently 1 rung down at the end of a ladder task.. or never quite confident to travel those extra 50 yards to join the lift.... then the difference becomes significant.

My personal opinion is that these models are all in the same top category..   NXT, vibe, concept 3,   vortex2 .. closely followed by snipe, flitz , stream mk1

nxtjpg.jpg

Edited by Richard Swindells
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Fascinating Richard and thank you for taking the time to put together the information. It sounds as if the Throwt has been a good choice to get in to dlg and start learning. I appreciate the guidance as to what can be achieved with it and when the time to consider an upgrade is right. I am awed by the help on this forum. I thank all contributing and hope to meet some of you sometime soon.

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I have the Maat from the same stable at the Thowt. It seem better developed and a better flier than the Thowt so given the chance I would suggest you order one of these in preference. I had it delivered to my door for an incredible £172. 

The only fly in the ointment is that it is impossible to get hold of Ondrej the maker anymore.  I have had no response to emails.  I understand that he has now done a deal with a certain midlands DLG seller and that he no longer sells directly to the Brits.  I get the feeling he has done similar deals with other European toy aero plane shops. So you now have to pay their markup. Even then I think that the fully moulded Maat and Thowt are far superior to the HobbyKing and Longshot offerings.

There are build threads in RC groups of course - the Maat is here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2357025&pp=50#post31692551 with lots of piccies and flying videos.

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