New world record!

[Martin_N]

Well Done Lukas, great flying.  

[Stefan Bertschi]

Concratulations to Lukas & David brilliant flying (I think I would have crashed in around leg 3 to 4)

Is it legal? In my opinion yes.
1. It was flown on the Fronside of the hill
2. No Safety-Line was violated
3. Launch was for sure in the zone defined by the CD (on the westerly we also launch way above the pilot!)

For those of you who don't know the 'Braunsberg' near Vienna - It's a bit like La Moo - a big junk of rock in the middle of nowhere. There are some steep slopes without trees and there is that shallow one with the tree line in front, all of those pointing in a complete different direction. So I think the choice of slope wasn't taken deliberatly to get a world record, but due to wind direction reasons. In addition I'm pretty sure that not long ago this specific slope was considered as the badest of the lot, due to the shallownes and the treeline.

The only things which would trouble me are the additional points of failure (crash) by diving behind the treeline and get above it again :-).

Cheers

 

[Phil.Taylor]

 In addition I'm pretty sure that not long ago this specific slope was considered as the badest of the lot, due to the shallownes and the treeline.

I foresee a search for more badest slopes - and fastest times, and brokenest planes

Edited September 21, 2015 by Phil.Taylor

[Jonathan W]

Sub 20 is possible using a DS site flying either normal DS orbit's or figure 8 laps, if you're after the world record.

Thanks for answering my original question.  Well done to Lucas and David.

Edited September 21, 2015 by Jonathan W

[Martin_N]

All initiative to be band from now on, does it mean we cant have thermal influence or pumping to extract energy as well as an example  Maybe the design of the models should not be improved and time should stand still. All they have done is optimized what they can get out of a slope, the same as any pilot should attempt to do.  They will have special layup models to also deal with this kind of flying, maybe we have to impose a design specification, not just wing area, loading and nose cone etc.

I'm sure an F3J/F5J etc pilot who is trying to fly out a slot and has a row trees that's producing lift from a certain wind direction, is going to think to himself, best not use that lift because that would make it slope contest.

Interesting to see how people respond to these situations. 

[oipigface]

 

 

I know where this is! Maiden Castle near Dorchester is an iron-age fort with three rows of earth ramparts on a north-facing slope. I have actually seen someone (Bob Runyeard, I think) DS'ing the middle rampart, while standing at the back of it, just as in this picture.

[Jonathan W]

Having flown f3j/b extracting as much lift as possible using any means like slope soaring etc and won slots, people have accused me of cheating.  F3f-  Pumping/ em turns is different than having a defined shear layer and only flying in it.  Joe Wurtz has posted on RCG.

I have a hill 3 minutes for my hose where I have done this.

That's enough posting for me..

Edited September 21, 2015 by Jonathan W

[Phil.Taylor]

I know where this is! Maiden Castle near Dorchester is an iron-age fort with three rows of earth ramparts on a north-facing slope. I have actually seen someone (Bob Runyeard, I think) DS'ing the middle rampart, while standing at the back of it, just as in this picture.

John - I was thinking the same thing - I've been there ! - not my fingers on the sticks but Ade Law - he had a blast DSing my Weasel in the smaller lower rampart

deliberate non-links to video & photo so as to keep this thread intact

https://www.youtube(dot)com/watch?v=doQyDca3DnM

http://viewfinder.english-heritage(dot)org(dot)uk/gallery/450/nmr/nmr_15852_03.jpg

Now then - standing on the top rampart - that's a very big deep upper rampart in front of you to DS into...

Phil.

Edited September 21, 2015 by Phil.Taylor

[isoaritfirst]

Its definately an interesting debate.

As a sometimes organiser would I have chosen to set the course there - well I guess as Stefan describes it I guess I would.  

For a competition that all pilots could enjoy, I would try to fly elsewhere if possible. Perhaps the level of attrition on slopes like these will be its own leveller, and reduce the frequency that they would be flown.

Also,

We have had discussion in the UK about national champions being crowned from results from as many varied slopes as possible. It is important because  "unusual" slopes can lead to significant advantages to those who have the local knowledge. This is an extreme example where local knowledge and even locally optimised models WILL win every time.

Where any rules broken - no (i don't think so)

Was it great flying - yes.

Is it comparable to existing WR ?

Could it be bettered by standard front side flying?

Have the goal posts moved?

Or should we reset the pitch.?

 

 

[Jonathan W]

Very true Mike.

[reto.blumer]

I once saw an F3K pilot trying to DS for duration in an eurotour :-)

I post here the full result sheet with all times flown. Lukas has 6 sub-30 in 14 rounds. David has 4 sub-40.

Martin Ziegler is 3rd rank with no sub-30.

Most of the 24 pilots surely flew in front of the treeline. Few flew behind, or at least tried, and lost their machine due to lack of practice. I think even Lukas crashed at round 13, earning a zero.

I think it is all valid (Austrian Championships) and a great achievement. They practiced lots for Rügen and won. Now they practice for this kind of conditions and win. By the way, it seems I hear in the video the Pitbull was 4.4kg overall. I think it needs guts to reach the treeline in turbulent air with that weight, and to achieve the minimal entry speed for managing the first turn over the treetop. And from leg 4 it needs guts and for sure at least a big pair (added to some cash for ready to fly backup machines).
 

Ergebnisliste F3F_14.pdf

[Martin_N]

Be nice to have a local slope that gets used in contests, I can think of a few pilots that don't get to enjoy that benefit.  You snooze you lose, you need to adapt fast sometimes.

[Spoons]

I guess if it doesn't say it in the rules then it's allowed. 

Dont the rules say something like local slope topology allowing......

looked very marginal through the shear and the thin line between rocket fast and el-splat-o. 

 

Having used trees during f3b slots I can't really say that it's not allowed. 

 

 

[Woodstock]

......

Most of the 24 pilots surely flew in front of the treeline. Few flew behind, or at least tried, and lost their machine due to lack of practice. .....

...

Ergebnisliste F3F_14.pdf

It may be quite legal in terms of current rules, but everyone knows deep down that this is not "playing fair".  The above sentence explains why..

[John T]

If we take this a step further and get a bit creative.........surely we could find suitable slopes without a line of trees and ask the friendly farmer to place a few rows of those large square hay bales just in the right place at the right height to create optimum conditions.

Still 'legal' ??

[mtreble]

It's very rare that a fast time, british record or even world record has been achieved by "pure" slope soaring. How often is it that someone put's in a great time, and is accused of "Getting the Thermal"?

This is certainly the case for my personal best history for as long as I can remember. Does this mean that my PBs are invalid because they were thermal soaring?!

F3F is about competing with the rest of the pilots on a particular slope on a particular day. For me, part of the enjoyment of the sport is the rich variety of slopes we have to fly on.  The pilot's ability to adapt their technique to new slopes is what wins competitions, and is what keeps the sport interesting.

I'm putting this slope on my eurotour todo list!

[Martin_N]

It's very rare that a fast time, british record or even world record has been achieved by "pure" slope soaring. How often is it that someone put's in a great time, and is accused of "Getting the Thermal"?

This is certainly the case for my personal best history for as long as I can remember. Does this mean that my PBs are invalid because they were thermal soaring?!

F3F is about competing with the rest of the pilots on a particular slope on a particular day. For me, part of the enjoyment of the sport is the rich variety of slopes we have to fly on.  The pilot's ability to adapt their technique to new slopes is what wins competitions, and is what keeps the sport interesting.

I'm putting this slope on my eurotour todo list!

Absolutely

[Jonathan W]

Yep, this hill is on my bucket list.

 

 

[abbof3f]

Pen-y-fan ,rush up ,black hill and skirrid added to the f3f calendar would be a dream come true lol....How many times over the years of dsing we have said "love to put an f3f course up here"as the model is being flown in a ds figure of eight f3f stlye ....gunned at a constant 140 mph ....you do the maths, sub 20 seconds I reckon !!!!

[reto.blumer]

but everyone knows deep down that this is not "playing fair"

Unfair would be that all the other pilots except the two new record breakers wouldn't be allowed flying behind the trees. But here 24 pilots could if they wanted to. Or had the guts to. Or had enough practice to. The one who has mastered it won. In my opinion it seems utterly unfair at least not recognizing this.

In Longpan Taiwan, the guy not flying les than 1.5m past the right side rock outcrop could forget getting sub 28. I know cause I tried hard (28.5 during practice day, with almost infinite climbing). Some know because they crashed. All other know because they witnessed it. Only those getting this near (and doing all else right) got the fastest times. It was pure F3F competition. As Lukas new record run in Austria was too.

Now it's time for some to get back to the maps, sorting out all the "bad" slopes with the bloody treeline we wanted to see cut to be able to do some decent F3F.... For sure they are many around in Europe. And let's try them out. Let's use our brains, fingers, and positive sporting cooperation to learn something new, some complementary skill to our traditional bagage. The usual ways are fine. But weren't they all new and radical at some point in past?