New world record!

[Andy_B]

Reto   Just how many Pitbulls has Lucas trashed between Long pan and this weekend ...6-10 ..? with special layups ...Just like  Mr O

and his Needles........

Edited September 21, 2015 by Andy_B

[simon_t]

This was certainly an unconventional contest against our current (and somewhat local) views of what an F3F slope is, but it was all front side, there just happened to be a shear layer close in.  Absolutely valid against current rules, and certainly very testing for those brave enough to use the shear layer.  Congratulations to Lukas for his incredible flying skills, tested to the full here by the look of it.

One might argue whether it is fair to organise a contest on that site, giving an advantage to those who found it/practiced it.  But providing the site was stated well in advance to the intended Austrian audience, then everybody would have had a chance to practice there.  As others have observed, F3F often exploits all sorts of 'lift' effects - laminar wind, swirling wind, local terrain effects, thermal.  This was just a more obvious exploitation of a natural 'feature'.  

And as to the impact it has on people chasing a world record time, well that is irrelevant during a contest, which is all about relative not absolute times.  In fact I am not aware of any mention of 'records' in the rules, it is just something we do for fun....  The hardest contests are often those with marginal lift/light conditions, not those with big air.  I think some UK pilots need to wake up to slopes other than the few that we fly at.  There are some 'interesting' slopes around the world, and quite a few in Europe (Poland, Pyranees, Rügen, now Austria).  Lets push on and embrace the challenges of F3F.  (btw, Joe Wurts has some interesting words about this on RC Groups, and the ultimate speeds possible by exploiting the right hill - anyone for a 15 second run?)

Simon

[Peter G]

Amazing stuff, well done Lukas!

I think he could have got a DS pump in if he was really trying To get the model wound up before coming into the course. Great the way it is accelerating throughout the run.

I am glad however, that this slope is a one off. I would really love to go to Taiwan but don't really have any interest in flying that slope.

[isoaritfirst]

None of this has any relevence to Lukas and this competition which didn't break any current rules.

His flying was breathtaking, his win well deserved and his record justified. 

 

However for me it does raise some interesting discussion points.

The top pilots should remember that the sport exists to support them. Without the combined masses that turn out each weekend they would not have a competition to win, no multitude of screeming fans, and no cudos.

Many of these guys can just about justify one nice model a year, and hope that it will still be airworthy by the end of that year. There are very few that would continue to compete if competing mean't that the likleyhood of those costs and build time/commitment were to increase by 2 or 3 times. 

I remember well the tales of F3f when I was starting, mag reports were all about how models were smashed into the hillside, and many potential pilots were lost to the sport due to their concerns. I recall flying one comp on the Wrecker - nothing special by todays standards but driving home my companion and I decided the over £6k worth of model had been destroyed that day. And this was when models were £600 ish. 

Having said all that there is a place for pushing boundaries and as MarkT said, varied terrain etc adds interest to the sport. Personally flying that slope would also be something I would fancy trying. But I doubt I would launch a second model if the first one exploded. I may be tempted to, but I would have to remind myself that the competition is just for fun, and I would have more fun by still having a model to fly with the next day/ week /year. 

How many of our current UK pilots would compete several times a year on slopes such as this, I can think of around 5 , who may say they are up for it but would they persist? 

Just like DS, I did a bit, really enjoyed it, built several specific models etc but in the end decided that the time and cost were out of proportion with my life. 

I don't think anyone is suggesting that F3f would go this way on the basis of one comp, however pilots do like breaking records, and organisers, myself included will always set the course to give maximum opportunity, and if this comp leads to more challenging courses, more attrition, more commitment, who wins?

I wonder if anyone does?

[Woodstock]

I'm not denying that this was stupendous flying, and a legitimate time under current rules.

I believe that the bottom lines are as follows:

 

1. One contest, one video, and F3F globally has changed FOREVER.

2.  Is this change positive, or negative for the sport?

 

[oipigface]

How often is it that someone puts in a great time, and is accused of "Getting the Thermal"?

This accusation is nearly always true. This why my PB is better than mtreble's, who is manifestly faster at F3F than I am in normal conditions.

[simon_t]

This accusation is nearly always true. This why my PB is better than mtreble's, who is manifestly faster at F3F than I am in normal conditions.

John, please can you send us back the silver salver and plate, we need to pass it on to Lukas!

[Andy_B]

democratic society indeed.....

[Greg Dakin]

Got to say that I'm loving this footage and the enormity of the achievement!

Agree entirely with Mike E's last post ref risk vs reward and the adverse impact of extreme flying on willing participants.

Great flying from Lukas and David Stary though - congratulations to those guys; fantastic reactions, model placement and audacity.....if we go sub-20 sec, I'm hanging up my 18mz. 

Greg

 

[Dr-K]

Well, astonishing emotional discussion around this what I would call "F3-DS-F" flying at the Braunsberg (where UK people usually seem to be much more relaxed and polite compared to Germans in the RC network forum...) I remember similar discussion (would this kind of slope overtax people) for the Gdansk Poland slopes.   

I must admit I am a bit scared about the Braunsberg scenery and would prefer to fly this "off competion pressure" - but generally what is the essence of F3F? Isn't  it that there is no single template like flying site (like in F3B) and every day you can find different conditions even at the same slope? And DS effects are a factor in many slopes, only not that obvious but mastering it makes the winner! Longpan definitly has DS components as well, at less turbulence, so what? No competion class puts so much weight into local flying site knowledge - so we can ask generally is this F3F fair at all? 

But F3f has so many facets and allows us using the most diverse flying sites, I think this is all good as long we can get enough information forehand and hence can select where we want to go.  For me the dividing line from F3f to something different would be if there is no option to fly fronting the wind anymore, but only in the back. But only because this requires a different practicing and not only "daily adaption", so would be a matter of fairness but still not violating rules.

P.S. for those who want to try, this wind on the Braunsberg has not happenend too often in their competition history.

 

[isoaritfirst]

Having kicked this around all week I think I am reaching a point where my thoughts are settling.

I posted this earlier on RC group thread,

I think the two parts need to be seperated - WR, and F3f.

WR time actually has no place in a F3f contest or context. They score no added points for being a WR.

They are interesting but are site specific. 
The nature of just how specific has just been extended by this event.

If we are to continue celebrating WR times then we do need to quantify them, or we will just end up debating each and every one.

The high attrition rate of running events in areas such as this will not make F3f an attractive sport to participate in. 


Conclusion for me would be that F3f is fine to run in unusual locations provided that the nature of the event is well publicised before hand.

Events that form part of any league should not take place in areas that are significantly different to frontside slope soaring.

WR times should be reported not as WR but as Hill records.

[John T]

One thing for sure...proves the worth of the forum for good, open, honest views/discussion/opinions/feedback/debate on this and for any other future subject

[Martin_N]

Something different again for F3F and one I would love have a go at, they get launched from the top whilst the pilot stands at the bottom.

 

 

[Skip]

Ouch! Tricky course to get the most from!

[Ian F3F]

Does anyone have any details behind Tkacik Milan's claim of a new F3F record time of 21.18? at Dobsinsky Kopec,Chmelov - Kosice, SK

 

The score card seems to have gone from more regular times in the 30's and 40's until Tkacik pulled off a 21.18 run.

 

Ian

[Peter G]

No, I don't but I note that it was a PiCam tracker test competition, must be unofficial. There was also a 23 in that round, must have been fun!

http://f3xvault.com/?action=event&function=event_view&event_id=2586

[wookman]

That is an average of over 106mph!