Vortex 2

[Guest]

So, last night when i got home from work, there was a rather large box in the hallway and i new exactly what it was...yup, my new Vortex 2! (Happy Christmas to myself!)

This might be a build thread, but i'll be quite a slow builder so if you follow along then i apologize. Also i currently have no manual or have found a build thread of my own and it's the first time i will have built a model with top drive so this is all new to me and the model so beautiful that i want to take my time.

I've flown on and off since '98 but only quite recently got into dlg gliders. When i first asked what i should get, Richard and many other said 2nd hand and solid core wing. At the time i loved the look of the Blaster 3, but old design and hollow core wing. Naturally i didn't listen and rushed out and bought one. It's a lovely model, but compared to the Vortex it's like a dinosaur. The Vortex is just amazing, i seriously cannot get over how strong yet light this thing is. So to anyone thinking of getting into dlg gliders, save yourself a lot of money, wait, and pick up a modern design 2nd hand. 

Back to the model. So yeah, it's blowing my mind how strong this thing is! the wing compared to the Blaster is unreal! The fuse with it's oval boom, the tail (i went carbon rather than the colored glass tails) there is hardly any flex in this thing at all and i don't have to be careful handling it unlike my Blaster. I like the black hex bolts for the wing and tail, easily replaced unlike that tail bolt the blaster uses. The tail just plugs into the boom so you can't go wrong with lining it all up.

I'm a bit nervous at doing the top drive, the wing is so nice and i'm nervous at making the pushrod hole from servo to the horn, currently reading online as much as i can and looking for other builds on the Vortex. Same when it comes to fixing in the peg/blade, the wings are too nice to be cutting, plus with the colour at the tips. I thought about fitting a Blaster peg which fits over the wingtip and then securing with a 2mm carbon rod through it. I haven't flown any other models so can't say if i find any other pegs better, i only have small hands and so far haven't found a issue with the blaster peg. All i can think of is the weight difference of the blaster vs the Vortex pegs.

Gear, i'll be using KST 08 servos all round. Battery i'm not sure yet. I found my servos centered more crisp with a 4.8v nimh than they did on 1s, So i'm thinking of going with a small 2s 300mah Nanotech. 

Like i said, this may be a slow build so i'm not sure when the next part of the build will get posted, but in the meantime, here's a phone pic of the new model.

 

[Richard Swindells]

Very very nice  . I can remember the first time I held a solid-core molded wing and I was amazed by the difference in strength.

The techniques used in building the Vortex and NXT are basically identical. The delivery of NXT's will arrive in the next day or two, so I am sure that ideas and photos can be exchanged with a lot of people building at the same time.

Top drive installs are actually a lot less stressful than you imagine. I will try and document mine (although I never find it easy to build and take photos regularly)

You very rarely get manuals for high end models, as every pilot has their own way of doing things.

[Guest]

I should have listened to you from the very beginning and skipped the Blaster for a solid core winged model, they are so much better. Just everything on this Vortex is stronger/lighter than the B3. I've actually thought about selling the Blaster now as i don't think it will get flown much, but since it was my first proper dlg i don't think i can part with it haha.

I found a thread elsewhere, where some build photos have been posted, it's all pretty straight forward really like you say. Only thing i really had to search for was the cg/throws. After reading quite a few posts, i've got some 'average' settings that will be a safe base to work from.

I'm going to try a take some photos along the way, it will be nothing new to you guys though but maybe if any new dlg'ers come along they can see how i did, where i maybe struggled a little etc and what settings i used for my first few flights.

I believe the holes for the top drive pushrods are actually already formed and i just need to use the stick in the pack to clear out the foam, so that's pretty handy if it's true.

One thing i need to double check on, since i'm a leftie, the horn goes on the left but which side should the hinge gap be on the rudder? I would have liked rudderless but don't think they make one.

[Cush]

Mark,

Nice to see you hanging in there!

Good choice. I hope to join you if Santa is good to me. I'm sure you have seen the build videos on YouTube.  I believe that you are correct and that the push rod tunnels are already done. I've only done one top drive and sticking a hot wire into my lovely new wing was scary the first time...

Did you buy direct from DS  Composites or someone else?

I don't know if the fin is asymmetric, but I would expect to see the hing gap on the same side as the horn.

[Guest]

Does Asymmetric mean it's like a flat bottomed wing? if so then no, it's symmetrical, i have a custom made vert here for my Blaster and that has a flat side and the Vortex fin is not the same as that, you can fit it either way.

So both horn and gap on the left, opposite the peg which is on my right wing =)

All i will say regards getting these models is that in Europe you have to go to Denis direct, so i believe. 

Santa is always good to me EVERY year, but strangely, as it get's closer to Christmas every year, a large sum of money always seems to vanish from my account and large boxes turn up at my door....haha

[satinet]

The fin might not be the same either way up. If you want change the hinge line to the other side the fin will have to go the other way up. I.e the top is different to the bottom sometimes.

I'm no expert on dlgs but i would imagine if you are using pull spring rudder you won't want the hinge/horn on the wrong side because the spring will be subject to force from the yaw effect when you chuck it.

[Cush]

Mark,

 

I think you can get them from France http://fred.mod.free.fr/vortex2.html

Yes, by asymmetric I meant like a flat bottomed wing.

So If the aerofoil is symmetrical  it can go either way up as the fin shape on the Vortex is symmetrical - i.e the top shape is the same as the bottom. But the rudder horn needs to be on the opposite side to the launch peg as Satinet, said because  the control run (push rod or pull string ) works best in tension. And I think that the horn should go on the side opposite to the hinge because you don't really want to cut through the hinge fabric to install the horn.

Not confusing at all

 

[Richard Swindells]

I have had to install the horn on the "wrong" side of a DLG control surface before (the prototype NXT elevator hinge-facing was upside down)

The horn is not the issue so much, the tricky bit is installing the spring (as the surface cannot be bent > than about 45 degrees in the direction that is needed)

There is a quick and easy technique to solve this issue, but probably requires pictures and diagram to explain, so I'll hold off doing that unless neccessary

[Guest]

I forgot about the pull-spring, so just looking at my vert, i need to put the hinge gap on the left too for it all to work.

These pre-bent springs seems awfully strong. First pull-spring set up i've had so i'm not sure if it's right or not. I'm sure my KST 08 servos will buzz at neutral holding against these springs?. But that's just twisting the spring with my fingers, once they are installed and with the horns and servo arm, it will all be fine.

[Richard Swindells]

If they feel too strong, they possibly are... but remember that we generally use short servo arms for DLG applications. Which reduces the load (5-6mm is what I use. for rudder and elevator servo arms)

The most important thing with pull spring setups is the line used... I have never seen a kit supplied with pull-spring line that is as good as the kite-line I use (zero stritch, teflon coated). The metal trace often supplied in kits is stretchy and does not conform so well to the hole where it enters the fuz. This means the centering at the surface is not perfect and "blowback" movement is more likely

[Richard Swindells]

2 minutes ago, Richard Swindells said:

 

Agggh this text editor makes me crazy (edit)

[Dave H]

Nice bird mark. Go slowly with the build , if you're unsure, don't be shy ask first cut second b4 doing anything that can't be undone. You may get several opinions but at least then you can blame someone else. In that note, I have always believed that when fitting control horns they should be tied to both skins so cutting through the hinge material is inevitable otherwise you're relying on the foam strength. Please feel free to contradict me

dave

[satinet]

Dave, what do you mean cut through the hinge material?

[Guest]

Since i'm also a huge fisherman, i have plenty of very good, zero stretch braid to hand =) if it's good for Barbel it good for a DLG! haha

The springs may be totally fine, it's just i've never done a spring set up so i don't know what to expect. If the wire supplied is ok, then when i was playing about at making a pull spring for my Blaster, i was using way too fine a wire.

Dave, it's beautiful isn't it?! i can't stop looking at it haha. I still can't get over on how much of another level it is compared to my Blaster 3. Deffo taking my time, although apart from cutting the foam out the wing to put the servos in, there isn't much else to do in the way of 'building'.

Can we discuss everyone's method of making the length of the flaperon push rods up. In the Blaster i blocked the ailerons up, and then with full up aileron stick held on the tx, made the push rod. This gave me some down flaperon at neutral with the servo arms at 90 degrees. I then used trim to bring the TE back level with the centre tab. is this the best way to do it with a top drive also? 

[martynk]

Being a newbie in this, I don't really understand the technology and I don't want to hijack the thread with dumb questions.. Where is the best place to get a few answers? Shall I start a new thread?

[cirrusRC]

3 minutes ago, martynk said:

Being a newbie in this, I don't really understand the technology and I don't want to hijack the thread with dumb questions.. Where is the best place to get a few answers? Shall I start a new thread?

if not related to this topic then yes best to start a new thread.  I'd also recommend using the search facility on this site and flyquiet.co.uk  (still lots of excellent information on FQ).  Oh and also RCgroups.

[Richard Swindells]

8 minutes ago, martynk said:

Being a newbie in this, I don't really understand the technology and I don't want to hijack the thread with dumb questions.. Where is the best place to get a few answers? Shall I start a new thread?

"Dumb" questions generally turn out to be the most useful. It is really easy for more experienced pilots to forget that newcomers who have not had the chance to closely study a fully assembled DLG, might not understand the "lingo" and concepts involved.

It does not really matter where you ask the question... just fire away

[Guest]

I've asked more dumb questions than i should admit too, don't sweat it dude, if google doesn't throw up what you're looking for then ask away. Although like Cirrus said, try not to go too off topic, loads of forums and threads out there to get answers and even PM people, i've messaged loads of people and everyone single one has been more than happy to reply and help me out, they're a lovely bunch of fellas i'll tell ya! 

[Dave H]

30 minutes ago, satinet said:

Dave, what do you mean cut through the hinge material?

Stick a scalpel blade at 90 deg to the hinge line through both outer skins and Kevlar hinge material. Apply epoxy to the horn and push through till it poles out the other side. Apply a dribble of epoxy to the protruding part and push back flush to the skin, wipe excess epoxy. 

Dave

[Guest]

Ready to begin, cheers Richard for the servos!