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NCFM Moth build

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MooSe

Dave, you mentioned you were interested in getting a M60? Well if you like foam then these are fantastic despite the fussy build. Like any high performance foamy the sum is only as good as the parts, labour and build quality. If you build one square and tight with decent servos and linkages then they truly are high performance in any wind spectrum. If you want one just for fun then it's fantastic. They retain energy extremely well, are fast but best of all really turn hard. From the EPP 60 racing perspective they were a bit out of fashion post 2009 or so. There are other cottage industry and home build designs for more specific conditions. The likes of the Polecats, Snipers and HP60's were certainly faster in good lift. In light lift the M60 shines and a few of the guys had these for just such occasion.  I read that a lot of guys like to shovel ballast into the M60 but I always felt that it became a bit of a freight train with none of it's agility. I think that one reason the M60 retains popularity is that it is easily available and easy to tune. The others are homebrews that are obviously hard to get for yourself or require import from the states. Also as EPP60 has all but died foamy interest has waned wrt high performance (more so now for FPV) But despite the years the M60 has always been available and NCFM put together a jolly good kit and instructions. So for versatility and outright grin factor I thoroughly endorse the M60. Get one from T9 before they go again!

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MooSe

A good result.  I like when you see the pu glue has permeated the foam on the bottom of the wing and a nice bead around the spar caps on top. Time to plane it down then the satisfaction of making and shaping the wing so it's foameez loveliness :)

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Scram

Dave, have you compared the M60 to your Moth?  Look at the pictures on T9.

I rather think M60 just means 60" moth.  Lots of folks (like me) bought "60 wild things, then cut 6" off the end of each wing 'cos they reckoned the standard 48" WT flew and manoeuvred better.

Would the M60 perform much different to your Moth?  Just a thought. 

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MooSe

Moth is lighter and more nimble but still quick.  Typically they don't carry ballast so go well in light lift.  M60 rolls slower and typically incorporates ballast. 

As the Moth is more compact and lighter you may find it more durable to abuse.  

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evad
52 minutes ago, Scram said:

Dave, have you compared the M60 to your Moth?  Look at the pictures on T9.

I rather think M60 just means 60" moth.  Lots of folks (like me) bought "60 wild things, then cut 6" off the end of each wing 'cos they reckoned the standard 48" WT flew and manoeuvred better.

Would the M60 perform much different to your Moth?  Just a thought. 

hi jerry , yes I did think that the m60 is a larger moth , there is nothing wrong with my moth and i'm very happy with it , I was just toying with the idea for my next model of the m60 as I quite enjoyed building the moth , I'm wondering if it would be a better model to fly in lighter conditions or if it would thermal better than the moth 

 

dave 

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MooSe

Tbh if you want a more slermally machine than a Moth then I'd be looking at an Alula etc.

I would choose an M60 over a Moth if I could choose only one model. Only because I like the size and ballast capability.

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MooSe

10 min with a mini plane and spar flush. (Along with my finger......)

Any voids around the spar will get pu'd later.

1/4 basswood drag spar epoxied on and central reinforcing insert also and a nice snug fit.

Secondary spar channel routed out for a perfect fit. The Dremmel attachment is perfect for this work. Spar is pu'd in with no cap. Just keep wetting and compacting down with an old credit card.

Tomorrow I'll fit the ballast tube and pu any gaps. 3 kids means limited shed time! 

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Scram

Dave and I both, built our Moths with ballast tubes.  I've yet to try any in mine.

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Scram

Looks good, Moose.  Those razor planes are good but mine is not quite flat on the bottom  :ermm:

Looks like a long ballast tube  :)

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MooSe

Time to fit the ballast tube.  This is a premade  Sunbird tube and ballast from T9. Too cold to be mucking about with resins at the moment and I've got a heavier PW51 section plank with higher ballast capability for those epic days. The Sunbird tube just fits but I may have to add a tailweight for full load.  Only flight testing will tell.

I've chosen top loading for a couple of reasons.  When I pu glue and weight it down I can utilize the wing beds as you only get the bottom half. Also I want to dress the spar at the same time. And flying wing lore has it that it's of greater import to have a slick underside.  As I'll be bottom hinging the elevons with top horns my bottom will be lovely and smooth :rolleyes:

So I've loaded the tube, marked the lateral balance and marked out for routing.  I've left a slug and a bit length for shotgun loading via a hatch. And it goes without saying the tube must be on the cofg or a tad further back.

With judicious use of a steel rule as my route guide I've got a perfect slot. Prior to routing I sticking some tape on the underside.  This prevents the router bit pulling the skin out. 

Tube in with a balsa cap for no reason than its just less pu glue to sand. I weight it for nearly an hour to let the pu almost set then reveal to dress the pu. If you keep it wet you can squash and work the bubbles and get a tighter stronger bond into the epp. I've also dribbled pu around the spar caps and trailing edge central key section. Also I smeared some grease around the tube mouth to prevent inadvertently blocking it with foaming gorilla glue!  Glad I did cos the stuff always goes where you don't want it!  

So next job is lots of sanding then fitting out the servos. 

Best do some chores now and fit that garden gate tomorrow.  Wive's just don't appreciate the time consuming intricacies of a good foamee :no:

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evad

looking good , lots of sanding to do on the wings 

 

 

 

dave 

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MooSe

Oh loads. Still got to cut and profile the tips then pu glue them as well.

I know with laminate you can just glue it up then slap the film on, job done. But I'm unsure at this stage if I'll laminate or just go with x weave tape. So for my own satisfaction I'm doing this core the traditional long winded way :rolleyes:

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MooSe

Well the garden gate didn't arrive until later.........

Tips cut and profiled.  Pu glue smeared on them. This let's you make them nice without tearing chunks out and gives them a little more density.  I did consider not rounding them off, seems to make little difference to performance and is easier to cover. But I'd wouldn't have that iconic  M60 look! 

Everything sanded then spackled.  Absolutely no reason for this now if you lam film but I have time.

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Norman

Lovely moth in build process. Great work man.

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MooSe

Servo time. I wanted them accessible for repairs and didn't fancy potting them as they flex about after a while.  My 1st choice for the KST DS145MG's would have been ply frames. Didn't have any but did have 3150 frames that fitted with a little fettle. I routed out the pockets next to the spar and laid in a few layers of bi directional carbon with the frames. If you check out Isoar's Bluto build you can see the best way but I'm happy with the fit of these. Also I'm going thru the wing under and over so can have nice short servo arms with the same geometry as a mouldie. And the linkages are hidden from damage. A balsa lid hides the servo flush to the wing.

I didn't bother with any tape.  A standard M60 only has 3 strips at the LE. Instead I did the wing in 75 micron lamfilm with an overlap to the spar. I applied 3m77 to the wing surface, let it go tacky them then smoothed the film on before ironing at low temp.  

This film is pretty thin so it won't hide any sins of the foam.  Note the whole wing is done in one go.  Unsure if it helps with torsional stiffness but if you need to replace a wrecked fuz the wing is easier to remove as a single covered unit.

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MooSe

With the laminate on I've painted thinned goop over the LE and tips as well as onto the foamage pre lam.

And finally covered in Oracover. I've never filmed over laminate before so followed Mike's wise words and dusted 3m77 onto the wing then squeegee'd the bubbles out.  Worked a treat :) 

So apart from the elevons the wing is finished. I had all sorts of design ideas but ultimately settled for a simple, bright and easiy to orientate scheme. 

I've marked the fuz for cutting but run out of time.  Mr Sparky is rewiring the house and I've got a room to prepare for bathroom conversion.  I'm sure I can fit some sneakage buildage in though when the boss isn't looking :rolleyes:

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evad

went up honey hill today to catch the tail end of the storm and chucked off the moth , I ended up with the ballast tube full and at times the moth was moving backwards , it was rather bumpy up there today , but I did move the cog back a little further again its now somewhere around the 38mm mark , lowered the elevator rates down again and it seemed to be flying ok in the small times where the wind blew a constant amount , Im very happy with how strong this thing is as it was slammed into the ground a few times by the wind and my crap flying , went home after around a hour and a half happy ..

 

dave    

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ChuckGlider

Hi guys

Whilst we were flying Mickeys slope at the Bwlch, S Wales, yesterday, my mate Phil and his two boys went on walkabout and found a foamie that has obviously been there a long time ,servos seized and control clevis's corroded away. It is covered in mud and the covering is starting to deteriorate. Span approx 60"
If anyone has lost a foamie and is capable of describing this one then contact Phil at 

bigphil@may1967.plus.com

 and I'll arrange to meet and hand over.

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evad

any updates on the m60 build moose ?

 

 

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MooSe

Hello mate.  Yep it's done.  Got some more pics. Unfortunately I was busy with a bathroom fit and family stuff and am now onework tour overseas, so it's still awaiting it's maiden. 

In fact last time off I didn't get to fly once :(. The weather was pretty pants though.

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