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NCFM Moth build


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know what you mean about the weather Ive not been out much just a couple of short trips , but the moth is still going well and has had the bounceability well tested now :ermm:

 

dave  

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  • 4 weeks later...

Ok since I finished this M60 a few months ago I thought I'd better update the build to completion. 

Last time we'd got the wing done so it's fuz time.  Standard follow the instructions fare regarding shaping that lump of EPP into something sexy.  Just take your time and sand and check,  rinse and repeat. 

Now when it comes to radio fit I made a few tweaks based on experience to improve longevity.  As you can see I have a square AA batt pack. It's a squeeze but fits. This is packed in with foam scraps and plenty of goopage.  Don't be shy! Treat it like a gel shock absorbing agent.  I used a Blackjack switch/charge port but to be honest they're a bit of a pain. The port is mounted in ply with foam to fair it in. 

The carbon spar has been splooged with lead shot internally to provide nose weight and prevent the tube splitting,  which they do if you land with authority....

Just in front of the spar is a ply keel which is shaped to fit the nose.  Liberal amounts of goop again to postpone the dreaded beanbag nose effect. Also note that the radio compartment sides have ply reinforcement. You simply cut to shape and fit,  cut and sand the excess epp doors and you have a nice sturdy rc bay. 

Plenty of final sanding and you should have a fuz that is sleek and ready to accept the wing.

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The pics pretty much speak for themselves here.  Just do your prep to ensure the wing is square. It's a bit of an embuggerance to get the servo wires in. To aid it I cut a slit to the rc bay and simply push the wires in to the hole you should have poked from wing to rc bay. When you're happy slather in the goop, check it's straight and weight it down. Easysleazy. 

You might notice in pic 2 the 3 drawn lines on top? These are for carbon rod longeron reinforcement.  M60's have a habit of breaking their back. This hopefully stops that although really the trick is to treat them like a crunchy.....

Next up is taping up and filming.

20160331_163055.jpg

20160331_163112.jpg

20160331_165430.jpg

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The pics pretty much speak for themselves here.  Just do your prep to ensure the wing is square. It's a bit of an embuggerance to get the servo wires in. To aid it I cut a slit to the rc bay and simply push the wires in to the hole you should have poked from wing to rc bay. When you're happy slather in the goop, check it's straight and weight it down. Easysleazy. 

You might notice in pic 2 the 3 drawn lines on top? These are for carbon rod longeron reinforcement.  M60's have a habit of breaking their back. This hopefully stops that although really the trick is to treat them like a crunchy.....

Next up is taping up and filming.

20160331_163055.jpg

20160331_163112.jpg

20160331_165430.jpg

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Oops! Bit of a double post going on there.

Tape time :frantics:

I use standard 1" x weave tape and adhere to the tried and time tested standard laid out by our American friends. That is, a layered system of tape and thinned goop. This forms an incredibly tough and resilient outer layer which flexes with the epp.

Thinned goop has been done to death but I have 5lts of Toulene, simply mix in a big jar with goop until you get that delicious honey effect. I paint a layer onto the bare epp to give a good adhesive Base for your tape.  Let it dry and apply the 1st tape layer.  The tape wants to lie in a certain way but pay attention to wing area and obviously plenty on the nose. Every time I apply a length I rough it up with scotch brite and give it a gentle iron if it needs persuading around a compound curve.  After the 1st layer I apply my goop and let it dry.  Now add a 2nd layer reinforcing and covering areas the 1st may have missed.  Just be aware you only need one layer past the wing trailing edge and you want to have an X over the wing as I mentioned before,  M60's break the foam back over the wing. More gentle ironing and then I build a few layers of thinned goop to get it nice and smooth.  When dry it has a rubbery feel. 

Give it a day and she's ready for film. There's only one option here really. Solartex.  It wraps and shrinks around compound curves beautifully.  Take your time and do it in sections from tail to nose. Do note to mark and cut the slot for the fin before covering.  I find it easier to measure and mark out. When done you should have a tightly wrapped and slick looking fuz.

Time to break out the thinned goop again.  Apply coats and lots of them thinly at a time.  This can take a few days. But really builds the layers. When complete it will resemble a shiny porpoise except hopefully won't have fish breath :rolleyes:

So lastly will be elevons, fin, balancing and throws.  Must get on as there's another build awaiting my attention. 

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  • 4 years later...
taggarc

Repairing an M60  using Gorilla glue (the brown as couldn't get the white one).  What tape could I use to bind things together and stop the glue from oozing out of the joint ?  Would plastic electrical tape work or would it sick to the Gorilla glue and be hard to remove.   Plus when would be a good time to remove the tape   ?  Thanks Taggarc 

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oipigface
2 hours ago, taggarc said:

Repairing an M60  using Gorilla glue (the brown as couldn't get the white one).  What tape could I use to bind things together and stop the glue from oozing out of the joint ?  Would plastic electrical tape work or would it sick to the Gorilla glue and be hard to remove.   Plus when would be a good time to remove the tape   ?  Thanks Taggarc 

The foaming polyurethane Gorilla Glue (the Gorilla’s original product) is not a substitute for the white wood glue. They are quite different. However, I think you are using the right one for the job you are doing. Polyurethane glues work by expansion. They kind of foam up, which is a big benefit when working with foam materials. The glue expands into the interstices of the material and hardens, creating a rock-solid joint. It also fills gaps well. 
So, the glue doesn’t really ooze out of the joint, it foams out. You ask about tape to restrain it, but your first defence is probably not to restrain the glue as it foams out of the joint, but to restrain the amount you squeeze out of the bottle. You should aim to put enough on for it to completely fill the joint, but not enough that you wind up with enormous globs of the stuff coming out. This is almost less than you are using at the moment.
Experience will show you the way!
Having said that I always use masking tape to keep the stuff under control. Don’t worry too much about it getting stuck - another admirable quality of Gorilla Glue is that is readily sandable. I once made a fuselage out of packaging foam. When it came to finish it, I sprayed it with water, slathered the whole thing with Gorilla Glue, bound it up with Frog Tape, waited an hour or three, took the tape off and rubbed it down. Because the glue penetrates the foam so well, it created a really nice hard and smooth surface which I glassed and painted. 
Anyway, you should find that masking tape will come cleanly away from Gorilla Glue shortly after it has stopped expanding. Maybe an hour? Don’t forget to spray one side of the joint with water before you apply glue to the other.

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taggarc

Thanks for the advice went with plastic/ electrical tape - let the Gorilla glue go more or less completely hard (18 hours after putting it on) and took the tape off in 3 or 4 pieces - didn't have to dig anything off.   Probably the perfect solution for the job given how cheap, strong and flexible the tape is.  I should have to do minimal sanding.  The white glue I was trying to get is the same as the brown stuff but requires less time in terms of clamping and drying - plus of course dries white - see attached table - column 1 and 2   https://images.homedepot-static.com/catalog/pdfImages/19/194affa0-80e6-4dad-9081-8c0aef2995ec.pdf .  

I never built the original M60 so I have to tape it and cover it.  From the pics above it looks like the tape just goes on Fus length wise.  At the moment the  covering that is on it is incredibly thick (hence why it probably doesn't have any tape under it).  Will put some picture up tomorrow to see whether anybody knows what the covering is  and try and measure how thick it is (i wouldn't be surprised if it was car or sign vinyl ! ) .  When doing a fuselage like this  how many pieces do people use and what would be a good approach?  I have not done much in terms of applying film - never mind compound shapes - so any advice greatly appreciated.

Thanks 

Taggarc 

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Just for info  clear/white Gorilla  doesnt dry the same as the brown stuff , I dont feel it foams the same or dries as hard . 

 

Andy

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oipigface

I didn’t realize the Gorilla makes a white PU glue. I’ll have to try it.

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taggarc
3 hours ago, Andy_B said:

Just for info  clear/white Gorilla  doesnt dry the same as the brown stuff , I dont feel it foams the same or dries as hard . 

 

Andy

Andy the clear stuff doesn't but i believe the white stuff (not the wood glue) in the second column in the attached table above does - indeed it even quotes the same expansion properties and finishing  characteristics : "Expands 3-4X application amount" ;  "Sandable, Stainable & Paintable". They do seem to have a lot of different glue types though. 

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