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This Looks very Worrying


EssexBOF

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Quite a bit more discussion in the Drones thread in general discussion....  And yes it looks very draconian in Ireland, either on purpose or by by mistake, through rushing these these rules in.  I have heard of other proposed rulings in Czech Republic and Germany, so we may see more, but at least for the moment the BMFA has an excellent relationship with the CAA, and the CAA tend to take things slowly but carefully.

 

Simon

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The definition in the EASA document that Robin refers to is -

‘Drone shall mean an aircraft without a human pilot on board, whose flight is controlled either autonomously or under the remote control of a pilot on the ground or in another vehicle.’

i.e. a drone is an unmanned aircraft and can be fixed or rotary wing.

Steve 

 

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But there is also this section when describing the "open category"

" This approach affects mostly model aircraft practitioners and the ‘open’ category drones. Model aircraft flying has been practised for decades with a good safety record because it is a well-structured activity. The intention is to develop rules for the ‘open’ category that will not affect model aircraft flying."

So it looks like the EU authorities are recognising a difference between drones and model aircraft and don't intend to penalise model aircraft practitioners.

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Is anybody in Mark Pritchard's constituency (The Wrekin)?

On the 7th December he asked the Secretary of State for Transport, "if he will introduce regulations to monitor the sale of drones for private and commercial use."

On the 15th December, Robert Goodwill, Secretary of State for Transport answered "The Civil Aviation Authority keeps a record of all the permissions they have issued to fly commercial drones in UK airspace. However this does not extend to leisure users of drones. To address this the Department for Transport is currently looking at a range of options including regulation, registration and licensing options and a database to increase transparency on the use of drones for the general public. We will be looking to address these issue without placing unnecessary bureaucratic burden on this emerging industry. We intend to consult on all of these issues and other possible solutions in 2016."

I feel a letter to my MP coming on.

Steve

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Would it not be appropriate to define Drones as "autonomous aircraft transmitting a video signal back to a remote pilot to aid /allow flying without direct visual contact of the aircraft by the pilot".  Thus, normal model (of any type) flying would not be affected by legislation on Drones.

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On 20/12/2015 at 14:31, Robin Sleight said:

HOWEVER there is a draft in existence of an EU document "EASA's doc A-NPA 2015-10"

A-NPA 2015-10 is not a draft, it is a consultation document which now has a technical opinion (https://easa.europa.eu/system/files/dfu/Introduction%20of%20a%20regulatory%20framework%20for%20the%20operation%20of%20unmanned%20aircraft.pdf). The opinion has a bit about 'Special provisions for operations such as model aircraft', but, I definitely get the feeling that things are about to change and not for the better.

Steve

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And stuff like this - http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/dec/23/champion-skier-marcel-hirscher-has-near-miss-as-drone-falls-out-of-sky - doesn't help.

Maybe time to start talking about 'Special provisions for operations such as model aircraft' and put some distance between ourselves and these guys. There's no further information about the operator but I would guess he's nearer the commercial/TV/news end of the spectrum than the hobbyist end.

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On 23/12/2015 at 05:23, 1901 said:

Maybe time to start talking about 'Special provisions for operations such as model aircraft' and put some distance between ourselves and these guys.

Totally agree.

Have just written to my MP, Rebecca Harris, with the following and my address and phone number details. 

"Hello Rebecca.

We have not met, to my knowledge, and I have lived in Castle Point all of my adult life and for most of my childhood.

In almost all of that time, I have gained immeasurable pleasure from building and flying model aircraft.

My models are mostly gliders which are graceful and silent, and are controlled by hand - eye co-ordination skills of the finest honing, making use of natural up currents of air to stay aloft. I do not use cameras to fly any of the aeroplanes that I own, and it concerns me that those that do use "First Person View" will, by the dangerous pursuance of their own irresponsible enjoyment, finish it for all of us.

I have represented Great Britain in two World Championships, flying rocket launched gliders, and have flown many forms of other gliding competitions with my son AND my father. My proudest moment may have been becoming the radio controlled Hand Launched Glider Champion at the British Model Flying Association's National Championships, for the second time, with my father and son in attendance.

My daughter has given me two grandsons. They are starting to show interest in aero-modelling too.
You can probably appreciate how important I feel it is that they are given the opportunity to enjoy some of what I love.

Unfortunately, due to multi-copters - commonly referred to as drones, becoming very widely available for general and indiscriminate use, by people that have no grounding in using aerial vehicles, there is a strong chance that my hobby is in jeopardy.

Please can you do whatever is necessary to make my voice heard, and to protect my sport, hobby and lifetime interest, whilst also ensuring that the harmonious use of models and full size aircraft continues in safety throughout Essex and the UK generally. "

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I fear that the whole thing is escalating now with the adverse coverage on the media. There ia an article in the paper today where insurers are excluding drones or as they put it "motorised and remote controlled vehicles" Aviva would seem to be the exception.

All it requires is an exemption for remote controlled models,that do not carry cameras. Job done IMHO as you cannot fly, control any object that you cannot see where it is at any given time.

But it will exclude all those claims for lost models from the past.

BARCS 230

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15 hours ago, pete beadle said:

Let us know when/if you get a reply, yes?

Of course I will Pete.

Posted the letter here so that others may follow suit with ease, should they also deem it appropriate to take action to safeguard their hobby, rather than sit back and regret not having done so.

Happy New Year everyone!

Jef

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Quote

Have just written to my MP, Rebecca Harris, with the following and my address and phone number details.

Jef, nicely put,

If you get into a dialogue with your MP or her assistants, you might care to remember that the government is promoting STEM, and this is what the website quotes:

"Science and research are major contributors to the prosperity of the UK. For our prosperity to continue, the government believes we need high levels of skills in science, technology, engineering and maths (STEM), and citizens that value them"

I suggest that "aeromodelling" in all its forms helps that and  there are a significant number of "us" in the aerospace, science & technology fields. As one example (although he died recently), you could cite Tom Smith. From memory he was in the British team at a World Champs many moons ago, but more importantly he was the leader of the project team that designed the British space shuttle - 10 years before the US..........typically, the project got canned by the government of the day! There are many others I'm sure, including Paul MacCready, the founder of Aerovironment in the US that designs & supplies many of the small UAVs used by the US & UK forces.

The business pages of a newspaper had this headline a couple of days ago "Aircraft makers help to propel UK Industry"

My worry is that the bureaucrats, in an attempt to be seen to be doing something, will end up throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Sorry to rabbit on :rolleyes:

Peter

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Peter,

Your point about 'aeromodelling' being a good way of developing engineers is a good one.  Tom Smith was still at BAe Warton when I knew him - his obit is here:- http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/technology-obituaries/9649596/Tom-Smith.html  A quick look in my history spreadsheet shows that Tom was never on a GBR team - I remember him specialising in Open Power rather than F1C.  (I have a table of all the GBR representatives at Championships since 1951, with their class and placing - I'll put a copy in the Free Flight section to prevent too much thread drift)

A couple of names that instantly spring to my mind as aeromodellers in aviation are Sir Edwin Alliott Verdon Roe (AVRO) and Sir Sidney Camm (Hawker Aircraft) - a list of their aircraft is left as an exercise for the student.  There are many more.

MikeF

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Have you read the press release on the IAA site linked to in the OP and looked at the EASA documents? 

Irish Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Paschal Donohoe TD - "Tremendous potential exists for this sector and Ireland is at the forefront of its development. The speedy response by the IAA to this fast developing aviation area will make sure that drones are properly regulated and registered for use. As a result, Ireland is well placed to exploit the drone sector and to ensure industry growth in this area."

Steve

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10 minutes ago, Steve J said:

Have you read the press release on the IAA site linked to in the OP and looked at the EASA documents? 

Irish Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Paschal Donohoe TD - "Tremendous potential exists for this sector and Ireland is at the forefront of its development. The speedy response by the IAA to this fast developing aviation area will make sure that drones are properly regulated and registered for use. As a result, Ireland is well placed to exploit the drone sector and to ensure industry growth in this area."

Steve

Mr Pathcal Donohoe (Minithter for Tranthport, Tourithm and Thport) hathnt a clue what he'th doing (ath uthual) :angry:.  He's always talking about how he's "determined thith; and dethided that" as though he is some sort of demigod.

I will adopt the standard Irish response to silly regulation: completely ignore it.  Having spent many days in Irish Courts as part of my job, the thought of being put in the stand for flying a glider amuses me greatly.  

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1 hour ago, mikef said:

 

Your point about 'aeromodelling' being a good way of developing engineers is a good one....

A couple of names that instantly spring to my mind as aeromodellers in aviation are Sir Edwin Alliott Verdon Roe (AVRO) and Sir Sidney Camm (Hawker Aircraft) - a list of their aircraft is left as an exercise for the student.  There are many more.

My favourite contemporary example is not British, but has done the world a favour by increasing the efficiency of airliners to the order of about 30%. He is also almost singlehandedly responsible for the way DLG's look and fly. I refer of course to MIT's Mark Drela.

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I see that MACI have removed the news flash entry, dated the 19/12/15, on their home page stating that they were seeking clarification from IAA on the new regs. Its not even in the archive. Whats to hide?

As an international example of how aeromodelling is good for developing/promoting engineering IIRC wasn't John Glenn(or was it Neil Armstrong), of moon landing fame, a life long aeromodeller?

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A little more on what is going on in Germany - a long statement by their equivalent of BMFA countering attempts by minister to inflict a 100m height restriction.  Of particular note is the point about Amazon/DHL who are lobbying hard to get use of very low airspace, at our expense.  That might explain why Ireland is so keen to introduce restrictions, as they already have a lot of US major tech companies enjoying the low tax status.  And Amazon are serious about commercial use of drones - They have been recruiting  senior autonomous UAV control engineers from major defence companies:

https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dmfv.aero%2Fpresse%2Fwir-wollen-zukunft-und-sicherheit%2F&edit-text=&act=url

Simon

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4 hours ago, Woodstock said:

Mr Pathcal Donohoe (Minithter for Tranthport, Tourithm and Thport) hathnt a clue what he'th doing (ath uthual) :angry:.  He's always talking about how he's "determined thith; and dethided that" as though he is some sort of demigod.

Nice ad hominen on the Irish Minister for Transport, but it doesn't really address his point. The Irish government want to encourage commercial unmanned aircraft operations in Ireland and see their registration scheme as part of doing this. How much does recreational unmanned flying in Ireland contribute to the Irish economy in terms of GDP and jobs and how much will commercial unmanned aircraft operations contribute?

Steve

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