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This Looks very Worrying


EssexBOF

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Richard,  does that mean your business is going to just fade away because all you can realistically sell are Alual's, Wesel's and Ahi's?  I have a feeling that is not going to happen.  I also believe many, many slope and flat field glider pilots will carry on as normal, no matter what.

All this talk of delivery drones whizzing round the skies is drivel and is not going to happen.  Yes the Police and essential services have started to use drones but the micro number of them in use is never going to be threatened by us flying slope or thermal gliders.

Have any of us ever known of a technology project that our government or their agencies have been involved with that hasn't been an utter shambles?  I can't think of one, so how on earth are they going to impose, monitor and police pilots dotted all over the country flying higher than 400ft?  It's laughable to even think they have the capacity between them to locate a single normal brain cell within their own political parties, let along manage a complicated situation.

There are not enough police to deal with serious crime so what kind of priority are the authorities going to place on a glider flying above 400ft? Absolutely none.

Perhaps we are being overy concerned about nothing.

 

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I think the risk to our normal slope flying habits depends on where you fly.  If you fly off a slope owned by the National Trust or Council and particularly if it it shared by paragliders I think the risk is quite high .  OK it's unlikely that the Police will be turning up but if the landowners say "no flying" it would make life very difficult and paragliders dobbing you in won't help either (odd that they pose no risk flying at whatever height they like isn't it?!)

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Location is probably the key in this but the National Trust and Councils have the power/ability to stop us flying at a moments notice if they own the land, regardless of the height at which we are flying. 

I would very much doubt that anyone without adequate training would be able to judge an RC glider of unknown wingspan to 400ft altitude accurately. I know I couldn't. Therefore how do the authorities prosecute persistent height limit transgressions?  Without fully calibrated equipment and the known position of the pilot in relation to the model, they can't possibly prosecute.

Paraglider pose more of a collision risk to other aircraft because of their sheer mass but they are also far more visible so perhaps the risk is equally reduced?

The way all of these proposed regulations have been hashed together is shambolic and disgraceful but then most legislation in this country is exactly the same.

No matter what happens and what legislation is imposed, I'll put money on it that a very large number of glider pilots will just do what they have always done, go off and fly somewhere.

 

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Reading through the paper from the link a few messages back there was mention of a firm with software to foĺlow any drone and map all the ones flying over a wide distance, presumably that would include us with our gliders.

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Under the current regulations you cannot fly over 400 feet if your model is over 7Kg.

Can somebody who flies largish scale gliders tell me what you have to do to overcome the ANO at the moment, as I see  a lot of 7Kg + models flying at great heights on some slopes.

David.

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13 hours ago, Ikura said:

Location is probably the key in this but the National Trust and Councils have the power/ability to stop us flying at a moments notice if they own the land, regardless of the height at which we are flying. 

I would very much doubt that anyone without adequate training would be able to judge an RC glider of unknown wingspan to 400ft altitude accurately. I know I couldn't. Therefore how do the authorities prosecute persistent height limit transgressions?  Without fully calibrated equipment and the known position of the pilot in relation to the model, they can't possibly prosecute.

Paraglider pose more of a collision risk to other aircraft because of their sheer mass but they are also far more visible so perhaps the risk is equally reduced?

The way all of these proposed regulations have been hashed together is shambolic and disgraceful but then most legislation in this country is exactly the same.

No matter what happens and what legislation is imposed, I'll put money on it that a very large number of glider pilots will just do what they have always done, go off and fly somewhere.

 

The problem is the law won't get repealed even if it proves to be a complete irrelevance.  The UK licensing laws (booze) were brought in during WW1 to increase productivity, but you couldn't drink a pint past 11pm in a pub until, what 1998? 80 years after the conflict finished.  And even then the rules got more complex in reality, not less so.  The government isn't in the business of increasing the amount of freedom that the general public has. In fact quite the opposite.

The laws aren't anything to do with catching people doing it in the act it's designed as a deterrent for people who get caught after the fact.  Paragliders aren't an avenue for revenue extraction so they aren't of interest to the powers that be. 

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16 hours ago, Ikura said:

 

All this talk of delivery drones whizzing round the skies is drivel and is not going to happen.  Yes the Police and essential services have started to use drones but the micro number of them in use is never going to be threatened by us flying slope or thermal gliders.

Have any of us ever known of a technology project that our government or their agencies have been involved with that hasn't been an utter shambles?  I can't think of one, so how on earth are they going to impose, monitor and police pilots dotted all over the country flying higher than 400ft?  It's laughable to even think they have the capacity between them to locate a single normal brain cell within their own political parties, let along manage a complicated situation.

There are not enough police to deal with serious crime so what kind of priority are the authorities going to place on a glider flying above 400ft? Absolutely none.

Perhaps we are being overy concerned about nothing.

 

 

Agreed and In reality they are only interested in the urban space and our activities are on the edge of the new regulations.

My concern is the government DFT CAA are pursuing these regulations setting the framework for the future, as are other countries, with commercial interest rather than the hobbyist  and i dont believe the BMFA are fully involved in our representation or have  enough influence  over proceedings to protect our interest. I hope im wrong!! but thats the sceptic in me ;)  and these regs can affect us

 As the spokes women for the FAA says in the video 'its not the modellers that have done anything wrong and they have an excellent safe record of operation,  its just that the airspace they operate in is now changing' .......gives you a picture of whats going on and their intentions, even though this is in the States.

''All this talk of delivery drones whizzing round the skies is drivel and is not going to happen''.....have a look around this website: https://www.suasnews.com/category/the-market/delivery-drones/

 I am aware of a few Universities here in the UK that are heavily involved  with government agencies and private companies with drone development, there are some big economic opportunities for them

 

 

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I guess what is happening in America usually happens here, but not always. It will be interesting to see how many of these start up tech companies actually make a profit. If they don't, sooner or later their investors will drop them and they will go away.

There is absolutely no way the British public will tolerate a sky full of drones and the noise they make, so the use of drones is going to be very limited. My take on much of this is down to tech geeks doing what they always do. Pushing the boundaries until they get found out to be day dreamers, then they bumble off and come up with other fantasy ideas.

If the likes of Amazon ever start using drone delivery systems in the USA they will be shot out of the sky by gun crazy cowboys and the whole enterprise will collapse. It will never happen there. and it won't happen here either.

Over here I would imagine it is more to do with our governments obsession with surveillance and controlling the population. More use in highly populated areas such as in a city. Sheep and seagulls aren't that interesting to snoopers.

My position is that I will continue flying and if I get hassled by some know-all goody two shoes who thinks I am breaking the regulations then I will be very happy to let them go off and prove it.

We have rights too and just because jumped up tech geeks think they can own the skies and push us aside doesn't mean we have to let them.

If the BMFA have folded up on this they will probably reap what they sow regarding the number of people who continue to pay them for an insurance policy.

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17 hours ago, swarrans said:

I think the risk to our normal slope flying habits depends on where you fly.  If you fly off a slope owned by the National Trust or Council and particularly if it it shared by paragliders I think the risk is quite high .  OK it's unlikely that the Police will be turning up but if the landowners say "no flying" it would make life very difficult and paragliders dobbing you in won't help either (odd that they pose no risk flying at whatever height they like isn't it?!)

One of my main worries is, Ive spoke with a few colleagues on the F3F circuit, when you consider a venue like the bwlch,  i think we would be flying illegally i.e. the wrecker slope and the VR slope being so close to the road and public area

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I understand everyones position on this and the arguments around intent, but from the position of a newcomer to this, who wishes to compete in F5J internationally at some point, I am unclear as to how we can compete when pour launch height already breaches the limit this ANO sets.

For hobby pilots who fly locally, I cannot see how this will be enforced.  

But for competitions, we will have a record and that will be suitable for proof in law, so what do the BFMA and BARCS intend to do there, as from next week, these competitions will be illegal? Or is that a sick bird??

Eamon

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In the spirit of 'enlightened self interest' I'm sure that Buckminster, with its NOTAM enduring height exemption, will serve its privileged future clientele well. The rest of us, the great unwashed masses, will be left to our own devices. It could prove a model for a handful of other  sites around the country for those of determination and DEEP POCKETS.

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Pete,

Please tell me where to send it and I will.

I appreciate that I am late to this argument, but am seriously concerned with the lack of information etc on this, considering it comes into effect next monday.

I for one, if this is enforced and my hobby is reduced to flying at my local fields, will leave both BARCS and the BMFA, as there will be not point in continuing my membership.

What I do with the models and kit is another issue, but this is foolish, as we are extremely well governed and safe, and there is no issue with our types of competition, which are not public events and usually flown well out of the way of anyone, let alone aircraft.

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7 minutes ago, Buster46 said:

But for competitions, we will have a record and that will be suitable for proof in law, so what do the BFMA and BARCS intend to do there, as from next week, these competitions will be illegal?

The organisers (or the hosting sites) are going to have to apply to the CAA for exemptions.

Steve

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Just now, Steve J said:

The organisers (or the hosting sites) are going to have to apply to the CAA for exemptions.

Steve,

Thanks for this, but the process of hosting a competition is already arduous, with only a limited number of pilots willing to do this.

If this additional burden is placed on them, then this will become even more difficult and may discourage individuals from doing so.

If the BMFA or BARCS were intent on this then we should really look at a blanket application at the beginning of each year, to remove the pressure from individuals.

I am not clear on the process to do this, but from the forms I have seen on the website, they are not yet suitable for such applications.

Do we know what the timescale is for the turn around of these?

I for one would be more than willing to assist with this, if it allows us to continue flying competitively, but I see nothing from the BMFA in support of this, other than a note to say "Dont Panic" in the words of Douglas Adams

If I am missing something then I apologise, but this weekend I will be flying at Little Bentley and I see noting that says we will fly after that.  

regards

Eamon

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Had a stroke (left occipital intracranial haemorrhage) 3 weeks back affecting my vision. V difficult and slow to type and read. Never drive , fly or make anything again. Just eat, drink, sleep and listen to the radio. This will obviously not affect me but interested to see outcome and who comes out of the mess still able to fly.

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Sorry to hear that Fletch. I do hope your situation improves, it must be torture for you

Best wishes

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All the best to you Fletch. What has happened to you makes all this seem rather trivial.

My uncle had a similar stroke but he fought like a dog to get things back together and he now manages to walk over an hour a day and can lead a pretty normal life, so don't give up on what you can do in the future.

Wishing you every good thing.

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Martyn, Sure is. Main brain OK along with eyes etc. Its the visual processor bit that's all jumbled up. May get slightly better with time but not a lot. Right side vision in both eyes is missing, jumbled and distorted. Keep walking into things on my right and knocking things over. Went out with the wife Saturday, SCARY. Dare not leave the house on my own as I could walk out in front of a car whilst crossing road. God, this is bloody hard work.

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