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This Looks very Worrying

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Woodstock
On 12/30/2015 at 14:11, Fletch said:

I see that MACI have removed the news flash entry, dated the 19/12/15, on their home page stating that they were seeking clarification from IAA on the new regs. Its not even in the archive. Whats to hide?

A.........

It has now been replaced with a slightly more accurate statement.

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Fletch

Read the MACI statement (  http://www.maci.ie/news-archive/?news-year=2015#277 ) and noted that they had won a few minor concessions, for now. But, the statement on the registration requirements for every RPAS(Remotely Piloted Aerial System) causes concern, quote: "However, the registration process announced on the 21st Dec 2015 will not be changed. This is expected to become a global requirement during 2016."

In all the forums and the posts that I have read on this issue both here and elsewhere along with a protracted conversation with Manny on the 21/12/15 I have found nothing to give me hope for the future, in fact quite the opposite. I believe that the writing is on the wall for many aspects of this hobby. I don't believe that it will disappear totally but in the near future will have lost many activities that due to the regulations will no longer be possible. Those that remain will be more tightly controlled by the regulations and financially by the impossition of non transferrable/non refundable(crash/loose a plane shortly after registration and you pay again to register the replacement) annual/biannual registration fees. The CAA will have no choice but to impliment the EASA rules if we are still in the EU and fees serve the dual purpose of providing a revenue stream along with control. Up the fees over time to a realatively high figure and you will induce people to give up the hobby until the small number remaining can be disregarded and the activity banned.

IMO This is all about comerciallisation and not about safety. Safety is just a convenient and emotive bedfellow used to get the real objective. All us aeromodellers and the comercial interests that serve us are no more than a childs sandcastle on the beach trying to stand against the incoming tide

I've been an aeromodeller for the past 61yrs and I most sincerely hope that my forboding is unjustified.

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simon_t
On 12/31/2015 at 13:19, Jef said:


Can I still legally fly any of my thermal soarers at 200m?

Yes, as long as it weighs less than 7Kg, or at a site which has an appropriate CAA exemption up to to typically 500m.  These dispensations are for a particular site, and typically for a specific date/dates.  There are one or two examples where a CAA exemption has been granted for a site for up to a year, but these are rare.  Scale aerotow events inevitably have a CAA agreed exemption to cover their activities (and NOTAMs are promulgated covering these sites, although they are advisory and don't stop full size aircraft overflying the site).

Unfortunately the NATS advice seems to state the 400' as mandatory for all weights of aircraft, which is incorrect (but is probably what they want).  It may be that in the future we will need to register our flying sites, and obtain CAA exemptions.  There will no doubt be some sites that will not be approved by CAA for flight above 400'.  It may not be the death of our flying, but it will get a great deal more complex, and may put further unreasonable responsibilities on club committee officers.

Simon

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Jef Ott

As I am still awaiting contact from my MP, I think it is a good idea to have at hand (on this thread, as) a point of reference and build up a wealth of information pertaining to the historic importance of aeromodelling.

Just read this about the Wright brothers...

"In 1878 their father, who traveled often as a bishop in the Church of the United Brethren in Christ, brought home a toy "helicopter" for his two younger sons. The device was based on an invention of French aeronautical pioneer Alphonse Pénaud. Made of paper, bamboo and cork with a rubber band to twirl its rotor, it was about a foot long. Wilbur and Orville played with it until it broke, and then built their own.[20] In later years, they pointed to their experience with the toy as the initial spark of their interest in flying.[21] "

In the film "The Flight of the Phoenix", it is quoted that a rubber powered model flew 600metres in 1861. Have not been able to find other references to that. Does anyone here know about it? My Dad seemed to think it would have been an "A frame" twin pusher model.  

Can anyone tell me, was there ever anyone known as an aviator, that NEVER played with models? Might well be easier to remember a list of aviation pioneers that didn't play with flying models at some stage.

Thanks in advance.

Jef

PS Just found the quote in the original film The Flight of the Phoenix (1965) and apparently I had remembered it wrong. It was 1851 that Henson and Stringfellow designed the 600m record breaking rubber powered model. Back to researching that now.

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pete beadle

Hi Jef

"Buffalo Bill" Cody? who flew at the Hendon Air Displays with his Wild West Shows - I understand from an old mate of mine who comes from the home of the free, land of the brave that the only "killer" tool Buffalo Bill picked up in his formative years was a Springfield (rifle)

A famous RC model flyer? How about Emerson Fittipaldi - Formula One  champion

Then there's always the fictional ones - Horst Bucholz in the film "The Flight of the Phoenix" - Q "What's the biggest plane you've ever designed? A Three metres.......

Have you Googled - Model Flyers who went on in later life to do something that WASN'T laughed at.......

Hey Ho

Pete

BARCS1702

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oipigface
2 hours ago, pete beadle said:

Hi Jef

"Buffalo Bill" Cody? who flew at the Hendon Air Displays with his Wild West Shows - I understand from an old mate of mine who comes from the home of the free, land of the brave that the only "killer" tool Buffalo Bill picked up in his formative years was a Springfield (rifle)

A famous RC model flyer? How about Emerson Fittipaldi - Formula One  champion

Then there's always the fictional ones - Horst Bucholz in the film "The Flight of the Phoenix" - Q "What's the biggest plane you've ever designed? A Three metres.......

Have you Googled - Model Flyers who went on in later life to do something that WASN'T laughed at.......

Hey Ho

Pete

BARCS1702

Roy Orbison!

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PeterT

Mike Oldfield - look at the cover of his Hergest Ridge LP

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Jef Ott

Vernon Kaye flies model aircraft, and is married to Tess Daley! 

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pete beadle

Hi fellas

There was a long piece in todays "Click" programme on BBC1, featuring all sorts of 'copter-ish designs vying for Arabian money to design, develop and produce 'copters that did "GOOD THINGS"

There was a R/C 'copter that seeded mist/fog clouds in Dubai, apparently a big local safety hazard - there was a 'copter enclosed in an "all-round" safety harness that allowed it to bump into things and not damage its blades - or the things it bumped into - used for gaining access to smoke or dust-filled rooms - as in after an earthquake or a bomb blast..... Ho ho I thought, here's the Beeb showing the other side of these drones, multicopters, UAV's, ABC's, XYZ's etc

......but then, literally a reversal......a piece about quad racing! Chaps with long shorts, caps on backwards, American accents - lots of gum-chewing, racing their awesome "heavily lightened" quads, over a course about a hundred yards long, using FPV and similar remote piloting, involving on-board cameras giving real-time scenes from the cockpit(s) and flying around a series of, what looked like large plastic croquet hoops at "60MPH speeds" and then - joy of joys - bumping into these hoops allowing the viewing of real-time video of the crashes! - awesome! - did I say that already?

Don't worry chaps, with the Beeb on our side, we'll not have to worry about anything these "drones" can do for good causes, because the need for them to be even-handed with their coverage will surely scupper us, without us having to write to Points of View or anything.......

Happy New Year chaps, it can only get better, can't it? I'm off for a lie down.......

Regards

Pete

BARCS1702

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Jef Ott
8 hours ago, pete beadle said:

"Buffalo Bill" Cody? who flew at the Hendon Air Displays with his Wild West Shows - I understand from an old mate of mine who comes from the home of the free, land of the brave that the only "killer" tool Buffalo Bill picked up in his formative years was a Springfield (rifle)

Pete,
I think you should read this when you get a minute...

http://wuff.me.uk/cody/P2.html

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Fletch

Not so funny though is that all model flying within a 34.5 mile(30nm) radius of Washington USA has been banned causing the closure of many AMA registered clubs. Also, it would seem that regulation has come to Russia Putin the impailer sticks it to them

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wookman

The late great Ayrton Senna was an accomplished rc plane and helicopter pilot.

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pete beadle

Hi Jef

Thanks for that - so - Samuel Franklin Cody did own a Wild West Show and did "nurture the confusion with the public that he was "Buffalo Bill" (Colonel William Frederick Cody) deliberately.......

I'll have to drop in to the Hendon RAF Museum sometime soon and check the wording on their display, featured on the wall in the Main Hall, and make sure they're not falling for Samuel Cody's deception and they're not publicising a cheat - I'm sure they'd be VERY unhappy if they thought they were......

Regards

Pete

BARCS1702 

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EssexBOF
15 minutes ago, pete beadle said:

Hi Jef

Thanks for that - so - Samuel Franklin Cody did own a Wild West Show and did "nurture the confusion with the public that he was "Buffalo Bill" (Colonel William Frederick Cody) deliberately.......

I'll have to drop in to the Hendon RAF Museum sometime soon and check the wording on their display, featured on the wall in the Main Hall, and make sure they're not falling for Samuel Cody's deception and they're not publicising a cheat - I'm sure they'd be VERY unhappy if they thought they were......

Regards

Pete

BARCS1702 

Cody was a bit of a con man as he had little experience of design or construction of aircraft at that time. He did copy some which caused some angry reposts from Glen Curtiss who claimed he copied his designs.

There is an excellent book out "Marked for Death" that gives a description of Cody's last aircraft called the "Cathedral" due to the wires and struts, together with its demise. Geoffrey de Havilland passing by, twanged the wires saying that they were more in keeping with harp strings and not strong enough, Cody dismissed what the wippersnapper said to those around him.

On the 7th August, he took the  Captain of the Hampshire.cricket team up, before he flew down to Clashott to have floats fiitted for an attempt to fly aronud the British Isles, to win £5000 prize Witnesses saw the aircraft stagger then the wings folded upwards. Cody and passenger were catapulted out and fell 3-500 feet to their deaths.He had his wish granted that his death would be sharp and audden in his own aeroplane.

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martynk

Has anyone got any understanding of what CIAM is doing to maintain harmonisation? Its going to be very difficult to have an International class competition if different countries have different rules on what can be flown and where  (and how high).

 

Happy New Year

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satinet

Some classes would essential cease to exist if not flown in their european heartlands.  E.g f3j, f5j, f3b etc which cannot flown below 400 feet.  

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Robin Sleight
Quote

What is CIAM doing?

There is a meeting this coming Friday of the BMFA Executive Committee and I will raise the gist of the concerns expressed in all the above postings at that meeting and specifically raise the harmonisation issue with the FAI Delegate.

I note also that according to January 2016 issue of  "Aerospace"m the magazine issued as a professional journal by the Royal Aeronautical Society that -

"Japan has passed a law banning hobbyist drones from operating in cities or heavily populated areas. Tokyo police, meanwhile, are to form an anti-drone unit equipped with net wielding UAVs to catch illegal drones"

Maybe 2016 will turn out to be the year of Drone Wars instead of Star Wars!!!

Robin  

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Danny Chapman

I just wrote to my MP (Andrew Smith, Oxford East):

Dear Andrew,

I'm writing as a resident of Marston, and a hobby/model aircraft maker and flier (aero-modeller), because I'm concerned that there may be a move to introduce "drone" legislation in the UK that is similar to the recent regulations that have been introduced recently in the USA and Ireland. These regulations have, as a by-product, effectively banned certain types of model aircraft flying in these countries, causing much distress to aero-modellers there.

I, and many others through the UK, fly radio controlled gliders as a safe and legal recreational activity (with insurance through the British Model Flying Association). These will be typically be a few kg or less, and be launched by hand up to 50m, by winch up to 100m or so, or with a small electric motor which is just used to gain initial height prior to soaring. The current regulations mean that R/C gliders below 7kg can be flown up to any height so long as the pilot remains in visual contact, and flies safely. In practice this means my 1.5m span glider, weighing just 300g, can be flown up to about 400m in height, on a sunny day with good thermals. From years of experience, this is safe, fun, and has interested many bystanders and perhaps inspired a few to take up this hobby too. The current UK regulations can be found here: http://www.caa.co.uk/Commercial-industry/Aircraft/Unmanned-aircraft/Small-unmanned-aircraft/

The new regulations introduced in the USA and Ireland limit all remotely controlled aircraft to a maximum height of 150m, and additional/new regulations such as an exclusion zone of 35 miles around Washington DC have caused huge dismay to the aero-modellers in those areas. Whilst this may be appropriate for what people think of as "drones" (typically multi-copter models with cameras), it has effectively banned a whole class of model aircraft flying - including recreational and competitive glider flying. Glider competitions are held nationally and internationally for tasks that will be impossible with a 150m height limit (not just in competition, but also for practice).

Not only is R/C glider flying currently a safe and enjoyable hobby, it is worth noting that aero-modelling has had a long tradition in the UK, and has been the starting point for engineers, not just in aeronautics, but in all sorts of areas. For example, my father was a senior aeronautical engineer at BAE and Westlands, after spending his childhood making and flying model aircraft, and this is true or many (perhaps most!) in the industry. This government claims to promote STEM, saying "Science and research are major contributors to the prosperity of the UK. For our prosperity to continue, the government believes we need high levels of skills in science, technology, engineering and maths (STEM), and citizens that value them". Restrictions on safe and lawful aero-modelling would undermine that objective.

I would be grateful if you could use whatever influence you have to help ensure that this type of aero-modelling can continue in the future.
 

 

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