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Whitmore

2m Competitions in the UK?

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Whitmore

Can anyone tell me what competitions for 2m are flown in the UK? There's a real buzz about the German 2m F3B-RES class at the moment and I just wondered what the options might be for flying something similar over here.

Thanks!

Jon

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Jef Ott

Bit short of time currently, so I don't tend to bother looking at all of the forums, and have not heard/read about it before you mentioned it here, Jon.

Is this actually a form of F3B?

ie is it a multitasking contest, involving four elements? (Speed, Distance, Duration and Landing Accuracy) 

We do have an F3B section on this forum (in with the F3F bits).

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Whitmore

Thanks Jef, no it doesn't seem to relate to F3B much! As far as I can make out its a 9 minute slot, 6 minute max and spot landing.

The launch is by a standardised bungee, and the rules permit carbon only for booms, spars and leading edges. The class is driving some interesting innovation for affordable lightweight wood construction, many models are around 400-450g. The Slite and PuRES V2 are good examples.

I'm designing something similar at the moment and was just wondering what comps it might fly in over here.

Cheers,

Jon

PURES V2 - 2 Meter RES Segelflugmodell.jpg

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C__Data_Users_DefApps_AppData_INTERNETEXPLORER_Temp_Saved Images_IMG_0125.JPG

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martynk

That looks really interesting -  a low cost intro to competitive soaring. We may need a higher wing loading - or at least the capability for more ballast for UK conditions though. 

A very good turnout in the photo indicates that it is well supported

 

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martynk

Here ids the class introduction - translated courtesy of Google

(Source https://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de?sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A//www.modellflug-im-daec.de/component/content/article/23-leistungssport/segelflug/408-steckbrief-res)

Characteristics RES

The label "RES" presses from the following: 

R = Rudder 
E = Elevator 
S = Spoilers 

This competition class exists officially since about 5 years. The first competitions were held in the eastern countries and Turkey.


The aim of this competition category is a radio-controlled RES glider for a bungee-high launch, a flight of 6 minutes. Duration within a frame time of 9 min. achieve, which is completed by a target landing. The launch takes place here by means of a 100 m long nylon rope, which is connected to an elastic rope of 14.7 m. The model rises after release - similar to a kite - steep in the sky and reached such heights depending on wind between 50 and 80 meters. 

This initial height allows a flight without the ascendant influence of about 3 - 4 minutes. To pursue the objective flight time of 6 min. to achieve, the pilot must therefore look for areas where the sunlight warmed air (thermals) rising. the pilot is supported in this by a helper who monitors the flight time. 

the flight is completed by a target landing as close to a given point by the organizer. Meters distance between this landing point and the nose of the model Each gives a deduction of points. 

The launch can be repeated within the frame time. The longest reach in the frame time flight time incl. Landing is counted. 

The participants (usually between 30 and 60 pilots) will be divided into groups of 4 to 6 pilots. The pilot of a group flying directly against each other within the specified frame time of 9 minutes. Within this frame timing to be performed by each pilot longest possible flight. The achieved during the flight times are - together with the country votes - converted into a relative to the group scoring, the best pilot receives a total of 1000 points and get the other pilots achieved during the flight according to their ratings lower percentage points. In this way, weather changes between different groups do not affect the result. In total, 4 to 7 preliminary rounds will be played and the individual results of the pilot added. 

Top 10 - 15% of participants field contest a jump, the so-called "fly-off".. These are another 2 to 4 rounds with the then compete the qualified pilot in a single group directly against each other. The frame time is not extended here. The winner is finally, who achieved the highest overall score in this jump-off. 

The models used in the competition have a wingspan of 2 meters, weigh between 400g and 650gr and are produced exclusively in wood. Exceptions are few components, which may also consist of carbon or glass according to regulations. 

Since these kits the RES class are quite low, it also allows young people and newcomers to find a suitable entry in the model glider and competition here. Simple remote controls are sufficient for controlling eiens RES model completely out, because only 3 functions (elevator - rudder - spoiler) will be used!

Thomas Alexander Ladach in March 2015

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Whitmore

Thanks for that Martyn. The German scene has an active forum (again via google translate):

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?act=url&depth=2&hl=en&ie=UTF8&nv=1&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.rc-network.de/forum/forumdisplay.php/262-RES%3Fs%3D594152f241a21d8d0e9121825bf8c6db%26pp%3D20%26sort%3Dlastpost%26order%3Ddesc%26daysprune%3D-1&usg=ALkJrhjOHHhrEVVmem9iUGpdG7Wkx77M-A

One thread there clarifies that the class is now known as F3-RES as it has more in common with F3J than F3B.

One of the advantages of a bungee launch is that the spar design can be lighter and simpler. A lot of designs are using a carbon tube main spar and cnc milled wooden parts.

The thermal section of RCgroups also has some RES activity, including English build threads for the Pures, Slite and XRes (available from Hyperflight.)

There are also a few nice videos of comps on youtube - searching F3B RES will find them.

Me and Boffin have been talking about some kind of 2m competition for a while. It would be great if we could get something going over here, perhaps even a duration postal in the style of the Mosquito and F3K 14 day challenge.

You're perhaps right about the ballast/wingloading point - the Miles is an example of a heavier design that has a good reputation. That said, these models are designed for good penetration in spite of the low weights.

Jon

 

 

miles 2m competition glider the miles is a new all wood glider kit ___(1).jpg

ve bu fotografi eklemeden yapamayacagim [ok-up] [ok-up] [ok-up].jpg

Miles and Storks mean Smiles and Turkey.jpg

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martynk

Just a bit more info.

I have tidied up the lousy PDF I gave a link to earlier and also attached the German version of the rules. There is also a 2016 supplement as well. Note - that with the exception of the landing bonus table I have made no attempt to anglicise it..

This type of class appeals to me as it is affordable simple and encourages innovation.. Note sure it will take off though (using either a Bungee or a Winch) but I would certainly be happy to have a go if there was sufficient interest.

 

 

German F3B-2m - 2015 (DL).pdf

German F3B-2m - 2015.pdf

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Whitmore

Yeah, it seems accessible. And the scope for competitive own designed models appeals to me.

I have some ideas about how you might run something like this. Probably alongside an established event at club level, with the emphasis on inclusion and participation.

But it would be good to gauge if there's any interest?

Jon

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Whitmore

They do seem to be having a lot of fun over there! :)

C__Data_Users_DefApps_AppData_INTERNETEXPLORER_Temp_Saved Images_P1040262.jpg

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martynk

I asked a similar question to this a couple of months ago. The Dutch also have a simple entry level 2M Electric Soaring class that was featured in RCM&E earlier in the year.

I think the UK/BARCS view is that 100S is the 'entry level' class in the UK. There certainly wasn't much enthusiasm for a home brew class. Being a builder I can't understand that of course :)

Personally, I like the idea of restricted technology airframes - it levels the playing field, however, without critical mass and support of the national body an idea like this wont go anywhere.. :(   I still think an entry level e-soaring class would have more interest or potential - no bungees or winches or towlines and easier to fly and practice is possible in a restricted location.

However, I think it only really works as a class (with its own rules) not as a sub class merged with higher performance model rules (if that makes sense). There is nothing to stop you building a model like this and entering in open or F3J but that defeats the objective. If we could get 10 people to commit to building - including us, I would be more than happy to build one and commit to attending at least one event - more if there was sufficient interest and momentum.

Also happy to work with a laser cutter to produce a cut parts kit if someone wants to design a model - I'll offer to do the CAD work as well

 

 

 

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pete beadle

Hi MartynK

Last year and this the ISA ran a "low-tech" ELG competition series at our home flat field just north of Dunstable, it was and still is, well attended

Personally, I think there is always a need for clubs to run competition series like these, but think that a large proportion of our club/association, and especially its younger  members, are daunted by the apparent need to "build your own"

The ISA series was based on the Horizon "Radian" (the R/E one NOT the Radian Pro) and one of our more well known members, Mr Ali Machinchy, was happy to sell our members their Radians at advantageous rates last year to help out the new starters

Literally, for my money , I think there would be a pretty fair-sized number of members in other clubs prepared to run a low cost one-make based comp like this, especially if it had simplified rules and was based locally to appeal to locally-based members

Just a thought, the new "Radian XL" will be appearing in our (UK) shops and wholesalers this month and there are already discounted bargains to be had I understand - would that sort of thing appeal do you think?

Regards

Pete

BARCS1702 

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martynk

Thanks Pete

Its not a model I am familiar with, I'll take a look

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martynk

Just taken a look. I recognise the standard version, one of our club members has one and it flies very well. Not my cup of tea TBH but I also recognise I am a (small) dinosaur in a modern hi tech world. 

I would certainly try and promote the idea locally (NW - Cheshire/Lancs/N Wales/Wirral and Staffs) though if there was nationally coordinated campaign if that would help. It would be great if the manufacturer offered a discount scheme as well (IF this was the selected option).

 

 

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Whitmore

So am I to conclude that there are no thermal 2m comps at the moment?

I regularly fly my friends Radian and it's fun to hoof about with, but its not what I had in mind to be honest either, although increasing numbers is always a good thing.

I must be a (young-ish) dinosaur too as for me its about the design and build. I'm building my Halo 2m RES design anyway, even if I end up playing alone :)

However, to sum up the case:

The 2m RES scene is building and spreading to the US. I think with the gathering momentum on RCgroups, there is potential for it to spread here too. The models coming out of Germany are making people reassess how 2m models should fly (I'll post some video at some point)

Neil (hyperflight) is selling the XRes and the relatively low cost of some very nice CNC kits (PuRES, Slire, Baba Jaga Competion) make it affordable. The bungee launch makes it straightforward for individual fliers to get set up. The builds involved are fairly easy - pretty much doing a jigsaw with CA :) The RES designs can also be flown on a fairly basic tx and the servos/rx/battery in the model can be very affordable.

All of this adds up to an easy entry point and promotes building skills.

I appreciate that there is a big gap from some cool looking models to a well supported competition, and I'm not a competition flier (yet) so I propose a forum 14 day duration challenge (á la the Mosquito and F3K one) as a rallying point for people interested in 2m flying. It would be flown with a standard bungee setup (to be decided) but for the sake of participation we could make it open to any 2m tow/winch model including ailerons and mouldies (at first anyway) This would provide some fun and give people time to get models together (me included!)

If there is any further interest, I would be then looking towards a 2m RES competition at some point next summer.

So would anyone be up for a postal? Dig out your Gentle Lady/Allegro/BARCS minigliders!

Jon

 

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Guest

Jon,

Sounds like a plan and I am up for it. I will be playing with my 72" Nan bitsa. This has all the aerodynamic capability of a potato so I will be deciding on a proper 2m RES over the next few weeks...the Slite is currently favourite.

CLM72 _fs.jpg

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Steve J
13 hours ago, Whitmore said:

All of this adds up to an easy entry point and promotes building skills.

To me an easy entry point means foamies (EasyGlider or Radian?) or easily assembled ARTFs. It does not mean glueing together lots of bits of sliced tree.

Steve

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martynk

I dint think there is any reason why an ARTF should not be made available - providing manufacturers make them available. For example, how much would someone be prepared to pay for a competent aeromodeller to assemble an X-RES Glider? http://www.hyperflight.co.uk/products.asp?code=X-RES&name=x-res - say airframe only ready for covering and radio installation?

I think if the demand is there then the models will follow..

 

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martynk
1 hour ago, boffin said:

Jon,

Sounds like a plan and I am up for it. 

Thats 3 of us then :)

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Whitmore
1 hour ago, Steve J said:

To me an easy entry point means foamies (EasyGlider or Radian?) or easily assembled ARTFs. It does not mean glueing together lots of bits of sliced tree.

Steve

Well it depends if your limiting factor is skill, time or cash.

I have nothing against foam (in fact I've been pestering Phil to tape up the prop and fit a hook on his Radian :))

Fortunately blobs of foam, slices of tree and pieces of polished coal or glass will all be welcome in the 2m Bungee postal...

This thread wasn't really about how to increase participation. But the F3-RES class certainly is doing so in Germany. If a postal can bring together a few like minded people, then great. Personally I'm not going to go out and spend £hundreds on a competitive mouldy before I know I'd enjoy competing. As a generally competent modeller moving into gliding, I'm happy building but competition flying does seem hard to get into. Maybe there are others out there with a similar perspective. I certainly would hope to promote building models, it's rather satisfying.

 

Martyn, Boffin - great! I have a 1.5m HiLite (built by Boffin) that I could fly while I build the Halo.

Jon

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