2m Competitions in the UK?

[martynk]

Not a bad price - just over £100 - post Brexit prices

 

(edit - not sure if that is a kit or assembled price)

[Whitmore]

I think thats the kit (Bausatz) The ARF is €230 with V-tail or with cruciform tail (kreuzleitwerk). €210 without a spoiler (ohne klappe)

It says it comes assembled and covered anyway.

[mikef]

I am fighting hard not to get too interested in this F3-RES class.  The designer and builder in me are trying to convince the other part of my brain that we should get a sheet of paper and start scheming.  It would be nice to get an 'official' translation of the rules.  In particular the prohibitions on the use of 'hi-tech' materials and the bit about the fuselage boom and halfway in the wing.

The importance of a clear translation is obviously to avoid confusion - just look at the picture posted higher up the thread - one gent has turned up with a basket of plums instead of an aeroplane.....

[Whitmore]

Oooh go on Mike, ya know ya want too!

I'd missed the 'plum rule'... Maybe they are for hurling at fellow competitors?

[martynk]

Ha  ha. They will fly well if you throw it hard enough...

However, of all people you have the skills to do the design work and the knowledge/expertise to make it work... (Flattery just may get me somewhere)

I'll see if I can find a friendly German to help out, I agree that its a nightmare language to translate to English - especially where technicalities are involved. I used to subscribe to a German Technical magazine and try and make myself understand it. German and Welsh are very similar - they both make words up as they go along.  

e.g. Welsh for a Microwave Cooker = Popty ping

[Whitmore]

Quite a few of the German/Austrian designers speak excellent English and post on RCG, so I'm sure someone would give any translation the once over for us.

I've started bringing together links in a sticky type thread over there:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2696827

There also this technical discussion you might find interesting Mike:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2580779

 

For a postal comp, I think it might be good to use a shorter bungee? I need to do some testing on this but the Hobbyking 6mm/10m one is readily available (also from Hyperflight and Ebay) and combined with say, 40m of line you'd get a launch more like a good DLG throw. This would be convenient for small fields too and make you work harder for flight time. I'd be happy to make them up and post them at cost so we're all on the same gear.

 

Jon

[PeterT]

You lot are rotten What's that saying "get thee behind me satan" Just like Mike F, I'm trying hard to ignore this, with an FF model to be built for France later this month and two rudimentary DLGs with components cut out - that man Whitmore keeps coming up with things that push all the right buttons

All I can say is that if this gets off the ground and continues next year, I'll get building over the winter period. I can fit the bits for a 2m model on my small building board and have a nice carbon F1A boom that should do for a fuselage. Incidentally, the Hayes club used to run Wednesday evening club comps to a similar spec. Having watched a few, it looked good fun

The Klaus Thiele website has a good selection of models. A few years back I looked at buying a straight tow F1H kit with carbon tube wingspar & boom at a killer price (from memory) of well under 50 quid. Unfortunately, at the time they didn't do plastic or paypal, only bank transfers, and paying £25 to my bank for the privilege didn't make sense. I don't know if the payment method(s) has changed now, but it's worthwhile checking and perhaps interested parties making a bulk buy to keep the cost down.

Toodle pip

Peter

ps wrong topic I know, but those who like to build models might be interested in these mosquito size DLG kits : http://www.modellbau-thiele.de/index.htm?http://www.modellbau-thiele.de/k003u006s001.htm           

- click on "Modelle" and F3K

 

[martynk]

I have a translator working on section 2 now  Hopefully an update later

Martyn

 

[martynk]

1 hour ago, PeterT said:

You lot are rotten What's that saying "get thee behind me satan" Just like Mike F, I'm trying hard to ignore this, with an FF model to be built for France later this month and two rudimentary DLGs with components cut out - that man Whitmore keeps coming up with things that push all the right buttons

 

Peter

ps wrong topic I know, but those who like to build models might be interested in these mosquito size DLG kits : http://www.modellbau-thiele.de/index.htm?http://www.modellbau-thiele.de/k003u006s001.htm            

- click on "Modelle" and F3K

 

OK that's one more  you wont be able to escape Peter 

I rather like this Mosquito as well. May go on my Chrimbo Pressie list

Very nice link..

[martynk]

From a translator working in a little building in Brussels.  We may lose these facilities soon

section 2 - specifications. 

2. The Model. The model consists of wings. fuselage and Tail surfaces. Flying wings that are not controlled by surfaces on the fuselage or tail surfaces are allowed but only two surfaces are permitted each controlled by one Servo only. Otherwise their construction follows conventional models.

2.1 The model construction should be mainly of Wood. That means, the Wing should be of Wood except for Spars, Wing Joiners and Leading Edges which can be of GFK/CFK/ Kevlar Tube or similar LE Profile

Tail and wing supports can be of GFK/CFK/Kevlar  Tube or fabricated construction, viewed from behind the tube must not exceed 50% of the wing depth (??)

The wooden fuselage may be strengthened wit a Skin of GFK/ etc. All control surfaces are not included in These restraints(??)

2.2 Not allowed are the use of Full plastic, GFK/CFK/Kevlar fuselages(EG Expert, EPP, etc)

A GFK/CFK/Kevlar skinned wing or tail surfaces, or D BOx construction.

A Wing or tail with foam core sheathed with GFK etc.

Fixed or retractable controls to brake the model on landing, eg projecting bolts or saw tooth skids

The modelö bottom must be smooth except for two Tow Hooks( size 5mm wide and 15mm high, seen from the nose)

Tow Hooks can be adjustable but not by RC or or the tow line release.

Ballast is only allowed inside the model and then it must be firmly attached.

No Telemetry from model to Pilot other than that of Signal Strength, Receiver Temp (?) and Rx Battery voltage. (No Variometer)

No communication between Helper and Pilot by Phone or Radio,

[PeterT]

Many thanks Martin, however you appear to have missed one. to whit:

"Colouring of the wing covering must be made by the application of plum juice"

You'll note there are many red winged models..............sorry I just couldn't resist it, must lay off the vino

[martynk]

Ha ha. I have an affinity for plum coloured aeroplanes although most of my clubmates refer to them as girlie Pink thus demonstrating a total lack of taste. 

[Whitmore]

Thanks for the translation Martin

[martynk]

Not sure if it has been mentioned but there is also Mark Drela's excellent Allegro Lite 2m RES which I think also complies. 

http://www.charlesriverrc.org/articles/allegrolite2m/markdrela_allegrolite2m.htm

 

and

[martynk]

Regarding the translation

There are a couple of ?? in there as the literal translation doesn't make total sense

Tail and wing supports can be of GFK/CFK/Kevlar  Tube or fabricated construction, viewed from behind the tube must not exceed 50% of the wing depth (??) - I have no idea what this means

The wooden fuselage may be strengthened wit a Skin of GFK/ etc. All control surfaces are not included in these restaints(??) I am not sure whether that means that control surfaces are not allowed to be GF etc covered or whether it is referring in some way to Surface Controls

I think the rest is fairly clear and now unambiguous

Any thoughts..?

 

[martynk]

I have been rather cheeky and asked Dirk Spangenberg (by e-mail) who 'owns' the class for DAeC if he can provide an explanation. 

I'll keep you informed

 

[Phil C]

Yes Whitmore has done it again! 😏

Yet another model to add to the collection & another discipline to learn to ropes of. 

After watching all the 'Blankenburg' & 'wetzlar' RES videos on YouTube I'm extremely interested in this. 

Thanks for all the efforts on translating

 

[Guest]

Phil,
I can only agree, what next from JW? Kit scale, catapult HLG, Mosquito dlg, mini pylon racer, copious XFLR5 and now bungee 2m RES all in the space of 18 months. You need to slow him down a tad.
I have bungee sorted, the Nan potato with a few mods like CoG where it ought to be rather than where it happened and a Slite kit ordered. Just waiting for decent weather.
I have taken the liberty of starting the design of an alternative  electric fuselage for the Slite as I am hoping to badger JW into considering 2m RES height limited MultiLaunch and am having the usual debate about power system. Looking for 300-350gm thrust. I have  a 34gm Scorpion 1900kv S11 outrunner  on a 7 x 6 for 10-11amps or a 130 size 60gm Feigao inrunner with a 4:1 GB on a 10 x 6 for 6-7amps 2s. Its weight vs elegance and I have not made my mind up yet. If anybody has done a 2m RES woodie with an F5J style climb then motor spec and installation shots would be  a help.

Regards Ian

[Gary B]

Looks a great class.

There are practical problems with the increasing number of silent flight disciplines, I have attended many BARCS committee meetings where we have tried to schedule disciplines over a three day event (Radioglide and Nationals) to avoid clashes.

By clashes I mean pilots who like to fly multiple disciplines but can't because they are held on the same day, as an example at this and last year's Radioglide I couldn't fly 100S because I opted to fly F5J instead. I wouldn't have been able to fly F3K because I was flying F3J (luckily I have bad shoulders so F3K is out for me!).

Another problem with increasing the choice of disciplines is the reduction of pilot numbers in each class, often falling below the minimum needed to hold a valid competition.

F3J and F5J are scheduled on different days because many F3J pilots also fly F5J.

Having said that any new class could be accommodated, possibly at the expense of dropping another class at events. It's something the committee could ponder at the next meeting if it received a proposal.

There is a general aversion to bungees and towlines (probably bad tangles from line crosses in the past at a guess) but my personal view is that they can be used with proper planning on the flightline. I would like to use them for my 'classic' 100S and Open models with weaker spar structures.

Cheers

  Gary

 

 

[Whitmore]

Gary, thanks for the wider perspective. It seems there is some interest so we will try and get some sort of postal going and see where we get to. If an actual comp happens I would think it would have to start at club level, as it seems to in the German/Austrian scene.

Phil and I are also in the process of ordering Slites, so with Ian and Martyn that'll be four of us to start with. Hopefully others will join in if and when.

Martyn - the Allegro Lite would be able to compete under F3-RES with the wooden fuselage version (not the composite fuselage.) But that said, I dont think we'd be enforcing things too closely at first - I'd rather have people involved. And to reiterate - the postal would be open to any 2 metre glider.

Ian, I'd be happy if you want to get some kind of e-2m thing going. I have a motor combo that I may put into an e-fuselage for the Halo. But I will be focused on bungee first. Maybe we can work out some basic rules for an e-2m postal that would allow Radians to get involved?

I'm sailing all this week but as soon as I get my model head back on I will start testing bungees and Ian and I will have a session with the Barge and the Potato. Once we've got a sensible set up, I'm offering to make up the hi-starts at cost for anyone who wants to join in on the postal.

Jon