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F5J rules 2017


Peter

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There is still some confusion about what new rules apply to UK F5J competitions this year so I will try to clarify:

1. In 2016 and before there was a UK variation to the FAI rules which permitted motors to be re-started, if necessary, but resulting in a zero flight score.

2. The SFTC decided to rescind this rule for 2017 and replace it by another rule which required pilots to remain upwind of the spot at all times during the flight.

3. After the change was published there were numerous objections so it was agreed to revert to the 2016 rule from April 2017.

4. However when the reversion was published only the 'motor restart' part of the rule was changed back and the 'replacement' rule requiring pilots to remain upwind was retained for 2017 .

5. Objections to this subsequently lead to the SFTC retrospectively declaring that as this was a safety issue they were entitled to insist on the rule remaining.

6. However as not permitting a pilot to move downwind if they were experiencing visibility problems of the model that they were flying could increase the chance of a crash the new rule might itself reduce rather than improve safety.

7. Individual CDs therefore have the right to decide that, on grounds of safety at their competitions, this rule will not apply.

Of course all the above only applies to UK competitions and not to any competitions held in the rest of the world nor competitions held in the UK to the FAI rules.

Clear now?

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Not really. Sorry as an interested outsider, upwind of what spot? Presumably not where you launch or you wouldn't even be able to land.

The upwind rule sounds bizarre. I have never heard of anything like that before.  I thought going downwind was the proper way to fly in thermals. 

 

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I believe it's the position of the pilot relative to the landing spot that's under discussion above, not the position of the model.

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PeteMitchell

I must admit I could see nothing to object to when I read this addition to rules. I thought it was just a necessary clarification, because I have never seen any pilot leaving their launch/landing circle during a flight at any of the F5J/Eurotour comps I have flown in. I have seen pilots flying at incredible distances (at least beyond my vision) but never leaving their circle.

Thinking about it now, it is obvious that any one flying at extreme distance downwind could need to follow their model to keep it in sight, if it got that far away. But if they should need to take this sort of action, it seems to me they would already be flying unsafely and subject to FAI rule:

5.5.11.7. Cancellation of a flight and/or disqualification

A competitor shall be disqualified if, in the judgment of the Contest Director, there has been intentional or flagrant violation of the rules or unsafe flying.

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If we take the attitude that any pilot who flies futher away than they should is guilty of unsafe flying and should be disqualified then anyone who has to turn their motor back on in order to get back into the field is equally guilty of the same offence.

Hang 'em all, I say!

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PeteMitchell

Yes I do agree Peter:yes:.

This ‘staying up wind of the landing circle’ idea is new to me, and I am just a bit surprised that another  local rule was thought to be needed when it looks like the FAI rules allow for the CD to make a decision for safety reasons if it’s necessary. Maybe it was thought that a firm rule would save any argument and ensure we all play to the same rule.

The FAI penalty is too harsh. As this is just another local rule, why not the same penalty as for re starting the motor if someone has to walk downwind to stay in touch with the model?  Should be easy enough for a CD to decide on that without any arguments?

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Very common in Europe for F3J  competitors to fly along way down wind and follow their model . I have never witnessed any problems regarding safety .Dont see why F5J should be any different .its just unfortunate that those making rule changes in the UK have to my knowledge never competed at WC or EC levels .So have never witnessed this level off flying .

also seems a bit ridiculous that if your view is obstructed by the terrain you might not be able to move in the direction needed for fear off being penalised .

 

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20 minutes ago, wixy said:

also seems a bit ridiculous that if your view is obstructed by the terrain you might not be able to move in the direction needed for fear off being penalised .

 

If terrain gets between you and the model and you are on 2.4, you are almost certainly going to be going into failsafe at even quite modest distances.

Was the intention of the "staying upwind of the circle" rule to keep pilots behind the spot (centre of circle) or the whole circle?  It makes no sense to me to keep the pilots so far away from the precision landing point - .  It is hardly going to help our pilots if they then fly to different rules at Eurotours/World Cup/World Champs!

Is the pilot required to stay behind his circle until after the slot is finished?  i.e. can he pick up his model or not  if he lands early?  It says 'at all times' which has no bounds!

I sat on the SFTC for a few years, but I am pretty baffled by some things coming out from them these days, which appear at times to be ill-informed as to the views of the pilots they are representing.  This is especially surprising as it is easier than ever to solicit input and views via the various media systems available to us these days.

It is probably not popular opinion, but I believe we should use FAI rules unless absolutely necessary to change them.

Simon

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Richard Swindells

There has always been a bit of resistance to adopting online communications media by the various soaring bodies. For a sport such as ours, that is largely driven by technology, there is no excuse for not taking full advantage of all the tools available to help us communicate, especially as these are no longer "emerging" technologies. For those still unwilling to adopt, I'm afraid its time to leave them behind.

 I hope to put myself forwards for election to the SFTC this year, with my aim being to

  • Clearly define which specialist bodies have responsibilities delegated to them for the various disciplines.
  • Create a structure for rule changes for BMFA leagues.and Team selection to FAI Championships that fall under the SFTC's jurisdiction. Possibly looking into enabling the vote to be opened up to a larger number of people who have a qualified interest are able to register their opinion.
  • Provide a more effective tools for communication - possibly some sort of ticketing system so that emails and questions do not get "lost in the ether", maybe linked to a knowledge base so that frequently asked questions can be quickly resolved.
  • Attempt to introduce a higher frequecy of short (30min - 1hr) meetings, rather than having to spend money funding fuel to attend meetings in person.

The problem is that the SFTC might be doing a fantastic job and have our best interests at heart, but without being able to effectively communicate, we are just left to 2nd guess how they whole committee works.

Personally I have no problems with modifying FAI rules, where it can create greater levels of participation without fundamentally effecting the quality of competition for those top league places.

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