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PeteMitchell

CHANGE BARCS ELG RULES

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Hairy Haggis

Hi Kikapu

Please check the whole flight time, not just the end time, this was taken from a logger during a competition flight by Rick Lloyd with his new 3.8 spread tow Claymore. 

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PeteMitchell
9 hours ago, Hairy Haggis said:

Pete I would like to know when the 200 M reading point is in the flight.

1 When the motor stopped. ?

2 After the motor stopped + 10 secs, ( F5j height )

3 Or when.

Hi Hairy

As said already, height is measured exactly as per F5J, it is the highest point reached at anytime during your motor run time + 10sec.

BTW that height needed good eyes:yes:

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Hairy Haggis
15 hours ago, PeteMitchell said:

Hi Hairy

As said already, height is measured exactly as per F5J, it is the highest point reached at anytime during your motor run time + 10sec.

BTW that height needed good eyes:yes:

 

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martynk

I am very much in favour as this (IMHO) is a welcome simplification of the rules and classes. It allows diversity of model sizes which is another factor that I welcome. Is there an opportunity for an open RES class within this or is that a step too far backwards?

I would suggest changing the name to Electroslot200 just in case there is ever a need for  an Electroslot100 etc.

I wont be at the AGM - how do I proxy vote?

 

 

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PeteMitchell

Thanks for your support Martynk. 

The committee is aware that the number of members voting at the AGM is likely to be a bit on the low side, and the hope is that this thread will give some clue as to members views. 

I think one way to ensure a members vote is counted is to give your proxy and instructions to the secretary.

When this set of competition rules was first devised, there was a category for RES, the 100" class was aimed specifically at glider guiders who had an Elliminator or simillar type built up model that could be converted to electric. Sadly it did not attract pilots so we widened the class to include full house gliders that seem more popular now. Same goes for Open class and 2M. 

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EssexBOF

Interesting piece here as to reducing the launch height to 150, as was tried out at an E Soaring event this last weekend.

 

Lift was exceptionally strong and general right from the first slot, and looking like it was likely to improve towards lunchtime.
A decision was made to reduce the launch height to 150m. Of course, it then clouded over for a while and the (light) breeze became chilly. This lasted for a couple of rounds, then the skies cleared and it became virtually windless.
However as the afternoon developed it became obvious, that as some slots were being won with five and six minute flights, it may have been prudent to have remained with the 200m launch height. Which we will do in the future!!

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CTR

I am interested in learning more and possibly entering more competitions but!

As a relative newcomer, starting with F3K last year and also flying a 2.3m electric for fun, I am finding it difficult to get to grips with the intricacies of the rules for different competitions. The issue is that people in the know refer to other classes in their posts. That means I need to break off from the thread, look up the related class rules, try to identify the relevant point, then return to the thread to face the next challenge!

On top of that, terms like RES, AMTR, CAM and ALTIS are sprinkled through the thread.

What do folks think these issues do to someone like me?

I'll tell you it certainly doesn't make me want to rush out and enter a comp. On the contrary, It does enhance the existing apprehension of stepping into the unknown.

I understand it's normal practice to use abbreviations and the like which are commonplace for those already involved in competitions, but anything to help those outside the 'closed circle' perhaps would increase the number of entries.

Any thoughts?

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Eamon

CTR,

I empathise, but genuinely once you get to grips with it it is relatively straight forward.  On the comp side, I can honestly say that I have never been treated so well or with such care as when I attend a BARCS comp.  The guys there are all willing to assist and none judge.

On the abbriviations, I am unsure what AMTR is,but assume it relates to height limiting circuits in some way.  RES is Rudder Elevator Spoiler gliders,  in other words no ailerons, but with spoilers that extend out of the top of the wing - help reduce lift and slow the model. You also have REF which are similar but with flaps that extend below the trailing edge of the wing and increase lift but slow the model.

Cam and ALTIS are two height / motor run limiters, which are required for height limited comps such as F5J or ESoar.

Cam: http://www.hyperflight.co.uk/products.asp?code=CAMF5J&name=cam-f5j

Altis: http://www.hyperflight.co.uk/products.asp?code=ALTIS-V4-PLUS&name=aerobtec-altis-v4-f5j-start-height-recorder-and-flight-logger

As I say it is confusing to start, but half the fun is learning the language and systems.  Please, if you can, go along to a comp, even just to observe and help time, as you will be genuinely welcomed and impressed.

Regards

Eamon

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Eamon

Pete,

I am unsure how I vote as I wont be at the meeting, but please, if possible, accept this post as my permission to cast my vote, as a proxy, in favour of this rule change.

I have no preference on the title of the rules, but would only suggest when advertising a comp that the height limit be included in the title.

e.g. Electroslot 200 comp; Electroslot 150 comp

Regards

Eamon

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Jef Ott
On 2017-4-13 at 09:29, PeteMitchell said:

An 100 model entered in both 100 and Open class, or a 2M also entered in either Open or 100, despite being under spanned in the ‘other’ class, would still be seen as giving that pilot an unfair advantage having twice the airtime with the same model.

Does anybody actually agree with this statement?

If not, I think it should be dropped from the wording, as it just complicates the rules unnecessarily. 

Just a suggestion, as I hate over-written rules.

Jef 

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PeteMitchell
8 hours ago, Jef said:

Does anybody actually agree with this statement?

If not, I think it should be dropped from the wording, as it just complicates the rules unnecessarily. 

Just a suggestion, as I hate over-written rules

The actual wording in the proposed rules are:

A competitor may enter a maximum of two classes in a competition.  Where 2 classes are entered, then both models must conform in all respects to the class they are entered for.

I agree that those with a mind set different to mine can see the unintended loophole that would allow one model to be entered in two classes.

However BARCS open and Bartletts rules have never to my knowledge allowed one model with a double entry, or actually written a rule to disallow it. But this is still the intention for the reasons stated earlier which I think most agree with.

Now that you have pointed it out, a wording, which will have to be more lengthy, will be drawn up.

Or you could make a proposal to change it in time for the next agm.

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Gary B

I have been asked to add a clarifying note on the ELG rules motion.

The rule change was voted in at the 2017 AGM (May) and was incorporated into the BARCS handbook.

Please refer to the wording in the handbook rather than this thread in cases of uncertainty.

  Cheers

   Gary

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Gary B

Have uploaded a Word version of the BARCS ELG rules to cater for flyers who can not access the BARCS Handbook (in the Members area).

 Cheers

    Gary

Edit: Upload link removed as it contained Bartlett's rules

 

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martynk

I have a couple of questions. Please don't think I am being 'picky'..

1. quote - "Competitors should hold a minimum of an A Certificate and have BMFA Insurance". - Any BMFA A Certificate or SF A Certificate?

2. quote - "Models used in the 2.6m class must conform to the general characteristics above (I assume section 3) but as those related to a projected wing span not exceeding 2.6m". Does 2.6m class equate to the 100S sized models and if so is this a RES class like 100S or is it the intention that a model can utilise an Aileron and Variable Camber equipped wing? The General Definition in Section 3 refers to 100S or 'Restricted Electric Model Definition' but doesn't mention a 2.6m class.

Sorry about that :(

 

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Gary B

Please ignore previous post.

It appears that somehow the Bartlett's rules were incorporated into the handbook instead of the BARCS ELG rules.

This is being corrected but will take time.

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