i_am_mark_evans

Damaged model, advice needed.

25 posts in this topic

Hi guys, 

On a whim i bought a model from a European vendor (i won't say who just yet) and it was delivered yesterday while at work so someone signed for it and took it in.

There is no damage to the packaging at all, but the model is trash.

The wing skin is bubbling away from the foam core quite substantially on the ailerons, the center tab is cracked on the top surface, small piece of the aileron TE is crushed and the rudder has a crease in it.

The vendor is currently claiming that because i didn't open the model in front of the delivery company that there is nothing more they can do and it's a issue to take up with the delivery company and the postage insurance, but that it will be difficult because i didn't open it in front of them.

I've never had a issue like this before and also never bought a model from anywhere but the UK, so i don't know what i do next. With dlg's, do i just accept now i got a bad one and that i'm out a few hundred pound?. 

My own fault really i guess, it was bought on a whim cause the price was very attractive, i didn't even need a new model and should have bought another reputable brand one if i did. 

I can't see the delivery company doing much about it so it might make a model to have a go at repairing it, and this thread will become about how i go about that, usually any damage to my dlg's before and i just replaced the part so i have zero experience in working with composites and trying to repair a dlg. 

Mark

 

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You do have some rights if you bought from a shop in Europe on the internet and have rights to return it. http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm

Speaking from experience sometimes damage can occur without damage to the packaging but normally due to poor packaging. It sounds like there are also faults in the manufacture. The least you should be offered is some sort of compensation due to the faults. If your not happy at all you can return it. 

 

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At the moment they are washing their hands of it and saying they can do no more until i contact the delivery company over it.

Since i already sent them photos of the damage/quality of the wing i'm guessing they won't even accept it back now under any sort of 'cooling off' period and will say it's a insurance claim issue?

I also foolishly paid via bank transfer so i don't even feel confident now that if they even did accept it back, that i'd even get a refund.

Thanks for that link Austin, i may well be sending them to that site also.

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So go ahead and contact the delivery company so you are following procedure. This will be the delivery company's reply.

Dear Sir, we delivered parcel ##### on ###### date. It was signed for received in good condition by #######. That signals the end of their liability unfortunately.

 

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Yeah that is just how it went.

Oh well, time to practice composite repairs =)

Thanks for the help and advice Austin.

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Hi Mark

I had something similar happen to me a while back, but it was a case of the box being damaged and crushing 4 wing panels (two models in the box). Someone else signed for it without noticing the obvious damage (wasn't happy about that!!). The model manufacturer had 'insured' the package at source but said I must initiate a claim with the carrier, they of course weren't interested and said to contact the company that took out the insurance - round and round we go! Anyway, I wasn't leaving it like that so I found the model forum in that country, told my story without mentioning the manufacturer and asked questions on the reliability of postage insurance, etc. (I'll see if I can dig it up later). By this time the manufacturer wasn't replying to my emails but lo and behold after a few exchanges on the forum the manufacturer emailed me to say he didn't want to be know as a 'bad man' and sent me four new wing panels. I would suggest you don't give up just yet, I'll find the thread on RCGroups started by Gerald Taylor (G_T) that lists many (all?) the model forums worldwide.

TonyM

RCGroups thread - https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1256844-Other-DLG-forums

My thread on the Czech forum - http://www.rcmania.cz/viewtopic.php?f=112&t=47299

Edited by tonym
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cirrusRC likes this

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Thanks Tony, i'll look into that.

At this point in time it seems claiming on the insurance is the way this person wants to go, but at the same time doesn't really seem all that interested in helping. I was at work at the time so someone else signed for the parcel, and because it wasn't opened and inspected in front of the delivery company then according to their T&C on their website it's now not their responsibility.

I guess on paper we should all do that, but in reality how many of us actually do open parcels in front of the delivery guy?, i know i never have. The guy has wrote on the box 'check for damage' but then i don't think they understand how our delivery companies work, handing you over a parcel at the door and quickly walking off.

I've both phoned and now sent a email to Parcel Force to see what they say, after a reply i don't think there is a a lot more i can do my end so will have to continue to put some pressure on the vendor.

The rest of the wing seems fine, it's just around the center tab and the carbon skin on the ailerons, so it's salvageable i think, just not salvageable at full price.

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I'm following this thread with interest. 

I'm in the middle of a very similar case myself. I'm not sure what to do next, I was on the blame each other merry-go-round, but it's gone quiet now. 

Nobody is replying to my emails or messages any more. I guess they're hoping I'll just give up. 

Not a chance. I'm no stranger to legal proceedings and have contacts who know much more than me...

 

Tony

i_am_mark_evans likes this

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As austin says if they are a european supplier they are responsible for the goods being delivered by a 3rd part in the condition as purchased, if they are damaged they are responsible to claim through the courier not you. in the meantime they are abliged to replace the goods.

the only way you are responsible is if you arranged the courier 

Austin likes this

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At the moment i'm staying nice, please and thank yous etc. 

Naturally they want to claim on the insurance rather than just accept a damaged model back, but failing that then i'll begin to put the pressure on. 

Small lesson learnt though, in future if i deal with anyone outside of the UK, then it's Paypal only so i have at least some kind of cover (and don't impulse buy models! haha)

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My claim with Parcelforce was pointless. They pointed at their T&Cs that states it should have been packed "in a box within a box and secured with carbon tape" and because it wasn't they wouldn't pay out.

 

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The reason I wrote as I did on the CZ forum was to hope that the manufacturer had a good reputation he wanted to keep, my tactic worked (for me anyway).

I do feel sorry for the guys manufacturing our light-weight, fragile models, especially if they're one man bands, and it may not be their fault that models get damaged in transit, but we are entirely innocent, all we did was hand over money and why should it be us out of pocket. Life isn't fair but if I'm not at fault I'll do all in my power to get a solution that I'm happy with.

Maybe we should suggest that a label be put on boxes that contain models saying something like 'this package will not be signed for until the contents have been thoroughly inspected'. Because these boxes are light they get chucked about, putting fragile labels on them doesn't always help - it can even make things worse :angry:

SilentPilot likes this

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Decide how much you value your time and stress levels. Sometimes its better just to chalk it up to experience.

After this fun & games, I try not to get involved with other pilots disputes. https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1370180-AMPED-505-Temujin-DLG (get out your popcorn). The most amusing bit is the abrupt end to the thread, after he runs off with everyone's money who'd been supporting him.

Even though I managed to recover the majority of the money, I didn't even get so much as a thank-you from the guy I helped out.

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Unless the vendor comes up with anything from their parcel insurance then I think I'll be chalking it up to experience as it does sound like a lot of time and stress to get any further with it.

If I don't hear anything back then I may be at next week's comp (waiting on the dreaded car MOT) so will bring the wing with me as it can be repaired, im just not sure how and everyone can have a look and a poke at it =)

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Some of it sounds like manufacturing fault. But without seeing it, it's hard to make a judgement. 

worthless_thread_wo_pics.gif

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Haha I don't want to pics up just yet as I'd rather not anyone guess the model and vendor just yet until I give them a chance. 

I accept the broken center tab and the damaged TE could have been done at some point, it's the bubbling of the skin where it's coming away from the foam that I don't get and feel that's more a fault in production? It actually runs a fair way along the one aileron so I can't see how any impact etc to the center tab part of the wing would cause the carbon to part from the foam the way it is. 

I'm not really out to name and shame anyone, even if nothing comes of the insurance and I just leave it at that with no further help from them. So if you would like to see pics and think it's OK to put some up I'll add a few. Might be able to start throwing some ideas my way on how to repair it if goes that way? 

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Sorry to hear your woes Mark.

Hope you get it sorted by way of a fair and quick resolution from the vendor.

Jon

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Ahh these things happen i guess, just waiting to see what they come up with regard the postage insurance.

I don't know if anyone might guess the model, but i don't want to say what it is or who it's from. Putting some pics up of the damage. The center tab crack is a easy fix with a patch over it, it's the bubbling of the skin i don't know about. Firstly i can't see how this could be caused by any impact, seeing as how far it extends along the aileron on the coloured side of the wing, so a fault during production maybe?. Either way, if i end up keeping the model, my initial idea is thinned epoxy or some CA injection into the bubbles than pressed flat until cured?

The last pic, the blown highlights are all lifted/bubbling skin.

The rest of the wing is solid and no issues. Apart from i ordered a Red and it looks Pink haha

 

 

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Mark

That damage is astonishing and way beyond acceptable.  The bottom line is this:

  • If the product was sent out in that state, then the retailer is 100% responsible for taking it back and supplying a new one.
  • If the product was damaged like that in transit, then the retailer is 100% responsible for inadequately robust packing.
  • If the packaged goods were badly mishandled by the courier (was there any external package damage on delivery?), then it is the retailer who organised and paid them and therefore responsible for their own claim

Whatever the cause, it is the retailer who is responsible for dealing with the problem and reimbursing you financially or by way of replacement parts.

If they argue, prevaricate or otherwise make your life a nightmare, then please jolly well tell the whole world who they are.

Jon

PS I think pink is great!

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I know this doesn't really help and I agree if the product arrived in that condition then the vendor should sort this out.  I like to work out how things have happened by the looking at the damage it looks like the ailerons have been force down with the masking tape still in position, this has caused a excessive  twisting force causing the skin to buckle away form the core.

This is not a difficult repair and is not in a bad place aerodynamically  so should not effect the performance to much.  I would use a sringe to inject a small amount of thin resin under the skin, dab away access with a paper towel.  Cover area with poly then some open cell foam foam or felt to spread load, then flat board (plywood). The weight or clamp lightly.

Bring It along on Saturday if you wish and I will have a closer look and advise further. 

 

i_am_mark_evans and satinet like this

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