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Witch_1

Paint for mouldies

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Witch_1

Does anyone know exactly what type of paint is used on moulded models?

 

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satinet

As far as i know it's two pack car paint on modern ones. It's acrylic.

 

Older ones might be solvent based paint.

 

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satinet

Unless you have a spray gun that doesn't help you though. 

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pete beadle

Hi Witch-1

The basic colour of all mouldies is the colour of the moulding powder they are moulded from, historically initially "appliance" white but later yellow, red and blue Pantone colours 

I don't know exactly "what type of paint is used on moulded models" but I'd imagine that all paints that are applied after the first moulding process, would have to be epoxy-based on epoxy mouldings and cellulose-based on polyester moulded parts but I may be wrong on this

Most paints now sold in car accessory shops are acrylic, which has replaced cellulose based paints because of their poor Health and Safety record

So most, if not all, "rattle cans" therefore contain acrylic paint now

Hope this helps

Regards

Pete

BARCS1702

 

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satinet

I've not heard of moulding powder tbh.

All the colours are painted on to the mould prior to the wing cloth being 'laid up'. You can see that here.

 

I assume there is mould release under the paint to stop it sticking to the mould.

Nothing is painted on after the moulding process. 

The problem with rattle cans is getting a fine enough mist. Especially at say tips where the paint is faded out.

Obviously things like stripes tend to end up with a ridge.

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Witch_1

Thanks chaps.  I  do know that 2-pack paint is used with a spray gun, and the paint is sprayed direct on the mould, allowed to part dry/cure to tacky so there is little solvent remaining, then laid up over that.  The mould is wax-polished and release agent is sometimes used  (I have heard that after a number of cycles the release agent is not always necessary, not sure how true that is).  I think many laminating resins contain alcohols or something which can penetrate the wax, but also penetrates some car paints such as the spray cans, so they cannot be used on a mould.  I have confirmed this with a couple of moulded tailplanes!

As far as I can see there are currently several types of acrylic 2-component car paint (lacquer, enamel, and urethane based), and some are marketed as non-isocyanate, and some water based.  And then there is epoxy paint.

Given that solvents do not affect moulded models much, and the surface withstands the resin and the releasing process, I'm currently guessing it is urethane-based with iso-cyanate containing solvents that are being used?

 

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Andy_B

seems like you answered your own question 

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satinet
11 minutes ago, Witch_1 said:

Thanks chaps.  I  do know that 2-pack paint is used with a spray gun, and the paint is sprayed direct on the mould, allowed to part dry/cure to tacky so there is little solvent remaining, then laid up over that.  The mould is wax-polished and release agent is sometimes used  (I have heard that after a number of cycles the release agent is not always necessary, not sure how true that is).  I think many laminating resins contain alcohols or something which can penetrate the wax, but also penetrates some car paints such as the spray cans, so they cannot be used on a mould.  I have confirmed this with a couple of moulded tailplanes!

As far as I can see there are currently several types of acrylic 2-component car paint (lacquer, enamel, and urethane based), and some are marketed as non-isocyanate, and some water based.  And then there is epoxy paint.

Given that solvents do not affect moulded models much, and the surface withstands the resin and the releasing process, I'm currently guessing it is urethane-based with iso-cyanate containing solvents that are being used?

 

I vaguely remember Tony Fu told me they use non solvent acrylic nowadays.  I'm no expert though. "They" though doesn't mean they all do it the same. I'm pretty sure they don't use a lacquer layer nowadays, to keep the weight down. I'm not sure what kind of release agent they use - whether it's a pva or wax or something else maybe.

What are we talking about here though - magic mouldie making powder aside - are you talking about making something moulded or repairing it? I've seen photos of people making DLGs with rattle cans (vortex IIRC), but they have very minimal paint schemes compared to say f3f/f3b types. 

someone who actually knows about mouldie making, hopefully, can answer the question.

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pete beadle

Hi Andy

I think Witch-1 was trying to get confirmation of his understanding being correct, rather than answering his own question - hence " I'm currently guessing"

 "magic mouldie making powder" is used for industrial process moulding, usually in injection or "blow" moulding for large process runs

If you used "mould release under the paint to stop it sticking to the mould" you'd be wasting your time as the release agent would have to be over the paint i.e painted onto the inside of the mould before injection or blow moulding in order to be the topcoat, to facilitate release from the mould.

Mouldie model makers don't usually have an assembly line and use a chemical process, rather than a heat process to cure their moulded products

So, once again I am making the mistake of referring to the industrial process (of moulding) rather than the batch process our "model moulders" use

My apologies, I'll butt out now and leave you all to it......:whistle:

Pete

BARCS1702

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Omega

face-palm !

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satinet

what's injection or blow moulding got to do with anything?

 

Everyone knows that mould release goes directly on to a mould. No one is saying anything else. As Witch said, they maybe don't need to use it on a highly polished mould. 

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Omega

Moulding powder. :frantics:

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pete beadle

Omega

As an owner of three Europhias built by Mr Weberschock I can assure you of the high quality of his standards in his building process

I can also confirm that his premises do not contain an assembly line for high volume moulded production

AS I said previously I have apologised for my mistake and have tried to remove myself from this topic 

I'd have thought that should be enough for anyone but obviously not on this forum,

Pete

BARCS1702

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satinet

Pete - I put up a video on my first post that shows how a moulded glider wing is made. Even before you start the video the still image has the painted mould in it! It's definitely worth a watch if you have an interest in moulded planes. It hasn't got anything to do with injection moulding.  Your posts seem to come rather "out of left field" as the Americans would say, on this one.

I think it's a bit far fetch to imply that this is a "mean" forum. 

 

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Omega

Yeah but you don't have a radical pro pete ;)

 

just jesting pete. 

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heli_bee

Most good quality model manufacturers will supply the RAL number code for the paint colours that they use.

My local auto paint specialist will mix paint to that specification in either acrylic or solvent based form. They will also supply it ready-thinned for home spraying and can also provide it in rattle cans.

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oipigface
16 minutes ago, heli_bee said:

Most good quality model manufacturers will supply the RAL number code for the paint colours that they use.

My local auto paint specialist will mix paint to that specification in either acrylic or solvent based form. They will also supply it ready-thinned for home spraying and can also provide it in rattle cans.

... and there is always www.paints4u.com, who do RAL, BS and more besides.

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Witch_1

Hi all, just got in from work and picked up the responses, thanks all.  Sorry, perhaps I should have been a bit clearer at the start as I didn't imagine we would get onto injection moulded models.

12 hours ago, satinet said:

are you talking about making something moulded or repairing it?

I'm actually talking about both, painting an existing model or two, and I would also like to make another Vee tail from my mould of a few years ago - the original was painted with a spray can after moulding.  Rattle can paint is very soft and easily scratched, and can't be cleaned with any solvents or alcohol so I'm looking for better paint.

Seems like we all seem to be onto the same thing, which is to trial various 2-pack car paints.  I may try experiment with release effectiveness of some urethane based paints that I already have - hammerite and glow fuel proofer - before delving into spraying.  I will also try our local bodywork centre and see if they have an expert on car paint types and some half-cans spare to test.

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heli_bee

I have been told that they can also offer a type of two-pack paint ready mixed in a rattle can.

I can only assume it has a limited shelf life!

It might be a better option for spraying in the mould.

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