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X-Models Stingray Advice Please!


Slope Soaring Sussex
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Thanks  guys, yes I took her out this afternoon for a flight and with winds in the mid 20s  I was able to get better height from our slopes and dialled in about 3 or 4 clicks of down which did allow her to start covering ground much more like I was expecting/hoping but as the winds subsided later in the day it became more lethargic again so I landed.

All in all, I was happy with the last trim setting but I’ll still be making a ballast box for those special big air and hill days.

One slight  annoyance, which I don’t know if anyone else has had, is the control surface wipers in the wings, they flick out a lot so I’ve now removed them but now I get the good old composite squeal on my hard rolls😉

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Are you using throws  that are too big. Just slowing the model as you force it to react.  It is a big glider and will need energy rather than big movements to make it active. 

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27 minutes ago, isoaritfirst said:

Are you using throws  that are too big. Just slowing the model as you force it to react.  It is a big glider and will need energy rather than big movements to make it active. 

 Thanks again isoaritfirst,

The throws are ok at present, although I'd be interest in knowing how close to the suggested settings people are flying with?

The annoying but is actually when transporting the glider across the slopes and the wind blows the ailerons which allows the wipers to pop out.

I think it'll take a while to get tuned how I'd like it for my style of flying, just need more wind😉👍

 

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On 12/09/2019 at 11:15, Eyeball said:

Hi all,

 

Im not sure if this thread will get any response as it’s getting quite old now but here goes...

As per my last post, I’m now in the process of making a support plate in order to carry lead plate for ballast so I can have the option on heavy wind days as I’m not really finding this model that impressive right now. I’ve kind of put it doesn’t to the fact that my local hills are just not big enough for the kind of air this glider needs to really get into the groove.

At the same time, I’m really tempted in adding a power plant to the aircraft, either a def or possibly the cheaper option which would be a folding prop system. My question is, has anyone here done the same with there stingray and if so what power systems and spec did you go with. I’d like to find out about both but I’m struggling to find any information on the web.

I look forward to hopefully hearing from you with some good ideas

Hi

I am sceptical about you needing more mass.

Can I ask where you fly?

Also, what sort of wind speed are you flying in?

My final question is which variant are you flying?

As Mike Evans has already commented the nature of this plane lends itself to a certain style of flying.  In light lift it is frankly not an nice or easy plane to fly.  Light lift with reasonable thermal activity is okay, but the weight does make a difference - this isn’t a high aspect ratio wing and things can widen out quite a lot.

In strong lift mine can be flown big, but also will behave like a much smaller plane.  In fact in good lift it is just a big ‘kipper’.

The key thing is getting good energy into the plane.  That said I’ve never felt the need to ballast yet.  I have flown in at least 25 m/s.

I suspect Great Orme is the only place I might review that opinion.  

I’ll dig out my settings for you.  In effect I have a normal setting and a more agressive set up.  The normal covers most bases and is benign.  My more aggressive set up I use for really letting rip or on small hills.  It is a lot less benign and needs very active flying in anything other than good lift.

I don’t have wipers on mine.

Iain

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24 minutes ago, Swalleau said:

Hi

I am sceptical about you needing more mass.

Can I ask where you fly?

Also, what sort of wind speed are you flying in?

My final question is which variant are you flying?

As Mike Evans has already commented the nature of this plane lends itself to a certain style of flying.  In light lift it is frankly not an nice or easy plane to fly.  Light lift with reasonable thermal activity is okay, but the weight does make a difference - this isn’t a high aspect ratio wing and things can widen out quite a lot.

In strong lift mine can be flown big, but also will behave like a much smaller plane.  In fact in good lift it is just a big ‘kipper’.

The key thing is getting good energy into the plane.  That said I’ve never felt the need to ballast yet.  I have flown in at least 25 m/s.

I suspect Great Orme is the only place I might review that opinion.  

I’ll dig out my settings for you.  In effect I have a normal setting and a more agressive set up.  The normal covers most bases and is benign.  My more aggressive set up I use for really letting rip or on small hills.  It is a lot less benign and needs very active flying in anything other than good lift.

I don’t have wipers on mine.

Iain

Hi Iain,

Thanks for your input. 

As for the ballast, I'd like to have it ready for when the winds really get going but timing this with when I'm back from deployments really narrows my opportunities. 

My weekday flying is around the Buxton hills at the leek and moorland sites and then come the weekends I like to get to the Orme but as yet I've not been able to launch in the big winds as there's only been myself there and it was about 55knts in the compression.

Ive flown it in winds around 15knts but to me it was lethargic and really just wanted to mooch around so from now on I'll only consider flying it at around 20knts and upwards.

I'd appreciate your throws for the extreme setting as I finding mine is a little barrely when performing axial rolls so my diifetential will need looking at.

I was hoping to get to the Orme today but the weather closed in and the winds changed.

 

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Barrel lay in the roll is perhaps an indication of too much up elevator or tail plane incidence.  Your other comments also point to too much up  elevator or incorrect incidence  

Possibly caused by your cg being too far forward causing you to need more up just to keep the model flying level  

if the cg is correct, then you just need to dial in more down. You could also test how the model flies inverted , although I don’t have a stingray I would expect it to fly inverted without much down stick, if yours needs lots then you have too much up dialled in. Too much up trim will bleak off lots of speed and leave the model flying slow and lacking the momentum it needs.

Measure your aileron throws and set at 60% up 40% down. It should still be nice and active at that and reasonably behaved. Set flaps to move at 50% of aileron throw.

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10 minutes ago, isoaritfirst said:

Barrel lay in the roll is perhaps an indication of too much up elevator or tail plane incidence.  Your other comments also point to too much up  elevator or incorrect incidence  

Possibly caused by your cg being too far forward causing you to need more up just to keep the model flying level  

if the cg is correct, then you just need to dial in more down. You could also test how the model flies inverted , although I don’t have a stingray I would expect it to fly inverted without much down stick, if yours needs lots then you have too much up dialled in. Too much up trim will bleak off lots of speed and leave the model flying slow and lacking the momentum it needs.

Measure your aileron throws and set at 60% up 40% down. It should still be nice and active at that and reasonably behaved. Set flaps to move at 50% of aileron throw.

Many thanks again,

I think the barrely rolls will be aileron differential so I will look at the 60/40 settings. Would like to know what sort of throws you use and are the flaps and ailerons traveling the same amounts?

The CG is pretty spot on for me, as i fly imac and 3d when powered and i set the all CG on a 45 degrees inverted upline to establish my preference. The Stingray only needs the slightest touch of down when inverted to hold a similar line.

Ok, so ill while off installing the ballast system for now and hopefully get a good day before i head back out in deployment.👍

 

 

 

 

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How heavy is yours?

Mine is just under 7kg with the full fat steel joiner and about 6.3kg with the carbon rod.

Generally I now fly in 12kts or more and the steel joiner.  Less than that and it needs a sharp drop just after launch to dive, sorry, plummet into to get some speed up and then some lift.  15kts and above is ideal.

I use thermal flap a lot if the lift is sketchy to gain height - which it does well.

Mine needs minimal down inverted, same as yours.

Settings are attached.  The top set are the core movements for aileron, elevator and rudder (for some reason the PDF conversion has jumped the rudder numbers to the left one cell!).  The different flight modes add inboard aileron to the flaps and snap flap.  Below that are the aileron and elevator movements for the full on extreme, usually combined with inboard ailerons and snap flap.  The rudder has lots of expo on it too.

Full aileron does make the roll barrelled if inboard ailerons are coupled in on these settings.  Looking at the way the tail swings and knowing what corrections are required on the rudder and elevator I would cut down on the down aileron for the flaps.  It kicks the tail which makes the roll ugly.

i do get that ballast at the Orme would be possible, just watch the landing!  Smooth with retracting the crow and leave more height than you expect to flare out.  In fairness I rarely use full crow on mine now, and tend to reduce to about half once I am sure of the landing.

Finally, in less than 15kts of wind, put the thermal flap out and get someone to throw it, if it as heavy as mine.

Hope that helps.

Iain

 

IMG_0629.PNG

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21 hours ago, Swalleau said:

How heavy is yours?

Mine is just under 7kg with the full fat steel joiner and about 6.3kg with the carbon rod.

Generally I now fly in 12kts or more and the steel joiner.  Less than that and it needs a sharp drop just after launch to dive, sorry, plummet into to get some speed up and then some lift.  15kts and above is ideal.

I use thermal flap a lot if the lift is sketchy to gain height - which it does well.

Mine needs minimal down inverted, same as yours.

Settings are attached.  The top set are the core movements for aileron, elevator and rudder (for some reason the PDF conversion has jumped the rudder numbers to the left one cell!).  The different flight modes add inboard aileron to the flaps and snap flap.  Below that are the aileron and elevator movements for the full on extreme, usually combined with inboard ailerons and snap flap.  The rudder has lots of expo on it too.

Full aileron does make the roll barrelled if inboard ailerons are coupled in on these settings.  Looking at the way the tail swings and knowing what corrections are required on the rudder and elevator I would cut down on the down aileron for the flaps.  It kicks the tail which makes the roll ugly.

i do get that ballast at the Orme would be possible, just watch the landing!  Smooth with retracting the crow and leave more height than you expect to flare out.  In fairness I rarely use full crow on mine now, and tend to reduce to about half once I am sure of the landing.

Finally, in less than 15kts of wind, put the thermal flap out and get someone to throw it, if it as heavy as mine.

Hope that helps.

Iain

 

IMG_0629.PNG

Many thanks for details Swalleau,

To be honest I’ve not weighed mine yet but I will do then tomorrow but mine does have the steel spar so it’s probably similar to your 6kg ish.

Thank you for sending through your settings, I’ll have a compare with mine when I weigh it. Can I ask what is possibly a silly question but the throws that you’ve listed, I’m guessing these are millimetres of travel and if so, where have you measured from, or are these angles of degrees?🧐😉👍

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9 hours ago, Eyeball said:

Many thanks for details Swalleau,

To be honest I’ve not weighed mine yet but I will do then tomorrow but mine does have the steel spar so it’s probably similar to your 6kg ish.

Thank you for sending through your settings, I’ll have a compare with mine when I weigh it. Can I ask what is possibly a silly question but the throws that you’ve listed, I’m guessing these are millimetres of travel and if so, where have you measured from, or are these angles of degrees?🧐😉👍

All the measurements are in mm.  Taken at the widest point on the rudder and elevator and on the inboard end of flaps and ailerons.

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Many thanks again, I thought they may have been mm but I 

On 19/09/2019 at 07:43, Swalleau said:

All the measurements are in mm.  Taken at the widest point on the rudder and elevator and on the inboard end of flaps and ailerons.

Many thanks Swalleau,

I thought I'd better double check.

I'll take at look at my setting this evening👍

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