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Which way next?


StraightEdge
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Have been having a really fab time with my Middle Phase this year (2 servo aileron wing, snap flaps to help with inverted, up flapperon braking, etc), and wondering where I might go next.

My interest is in further developing smooth aerobatic skills in mainly moderate wind conditions, and (being happy with trad building but not averse to mouldies) I'm initially thinking about:

* Phase 6 (4 servo semi- or fully-symmetrical wing?)

* RCRCM Typhoon

* RCRCM Minivec

Being realistic, should I stick with semi-symmetrical for typically 15-30mph winds or take the risk with a neutral section?!

Any other options or suggestions in the 1.5-2.0m plus range?

Jon

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If you do get a Phase 6 then I got advised against the fully symmetrical wing. Mine is the semi symmetrical and is great, the only modification I’d make is a dual servo wing, mine has a central single servo so is a handful to land without any kind of braking...

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Hi all

I "made my bones" on a Chris Foss Phase 6 intermediate (ie NOT symmetrical) wing with 2 aileron servos

Then, having found out that David and Graham Woods were ISA members, I first bought an Aeolus and then made another Aeolus (Greek god of the wind) because they were such brilliant aerobatic designs

Currently there is an all-moulded design available based on the Aeolus's original design called a Raptor which is a beautiful "kipper" shape that David and Graham reproduced so well, in fact I bought a fuselage from Graham that he'd sprayed with scales - VERY fishy......that I flew for over ten years, which was unfortunately "terminated" in a mid-air with a fully ballasted, all-carbon F3F job

There are others such as the Aresti and the Kinetic that look very similar

Want to see why the Woods designs look so good and fly so well? Go to Graham's website - favonius.com

So, my advice? find a plan/pack for an Aeolus, or buy a Raptor, which can now be bought in an "E" version these days for those flyers that get a bit edgy flying a symmetrical winged aerobat with ballast, and nowhere to go if the wind drops!:frantics::thumbsup::)

Regards

Pete

BARCS 1702

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If the Kinetic you are referring to, Pete, is Keith Groombridge's aerobat, then it is the same as the Raptor. Keith changed the name to avoid confusion with Spenser Lisenby's DS machine. Raptor is an excellent plane.

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Thanks folks

Raptor... awesome... completely out of my league... and would permanently vaporise the wallet!

Typhoon  seems the  option most likely to satisfy as my first mouldie - wide wind range, aerobatic enough, affordable.

Jon

PS Tony, why not retrofit servos in your Phase 6 wing.  In addition to breaking (spoiling more like on my Middle Phase), you'd be able to mix elevator -> flapperons to give the wing reflex (or at least pretend-symmetry) when leaning forward on the stick inverted.  I've also put a bit of mix on up elevator (half that of down), so everything is a bit snappier.

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Hi John

But, as they say, the Aeolus wooden't..........plus the 'Phoon  isn't designed primarily for hairy-battix:no:  plus plus it was on your original list so I/we assumed it had  already been considered and found wanting, no

plus plus plus PS I noticed that David Woods favourite goto this year was his Ahi.....nothing foam on your list either......

Regards

Pete

BARCS1702 

 

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5 hours ago, pete beadle said:

"Currently there is an all-moulded design available based on the Aeolus's original design called a Raptor which is a beautiful "kipper" shape that David and Graham reproduced so well, in fact I bought a fuselage from Graham that he'd sprayed with scales - VERY fishy..."

Hi all,

I think Pete Beadle may be thinking of this model, as he models it in this shot, we called it a Concept back in the day. This is a model of mine I sold from nearly two decades ago made from vacuumed carbon on to blue foam and 2.4m span. It is indeed very much like the Raptor by Keith Groombridge.

The fishy design Pete is thinking of was an Aeolus 60" with a glass fibre fuselage and built up balsa wings.

The Raptor is an excellent model, but very pricey, from Baudismodel by special order. The electric version was something David created himself using a Hacker 50S with 6.7:1 gearbox drive a 17x18 folder using 1kW of power to replace slope/thermal/dynamic lift. Not sure it is available.

The Kinetic was an iteration of the Raptor before it changed its name and manufacturer. For more info 'StrightEdge' see here...

Graham Woods (Favonius.com)

Pete Beadle 2005

 

 

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21 hours ago, StraightEdge said:

Any other options or suggestions in the 1.5-2.0m plus range?

Jon

My suggestion - get an Ahi ! And have lots of fun flying aeros with it while you build a Classic Phase 6 Sport ( not the symmetrical one)

The Ahi will fly in anything from 3-30mph - it's amazingly agile but can also be flown smoothly - will do absolutely all the aeros you can think of - and some more. Oh,and it's light so if you "land" a bit wrong it won't smash to pieces like a molded plane.

Phil.

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1 hour ago, Graham Woods said:

The Raptor is an excellent model, but very pricey, from Baudismodel by special order. The electric version was something David created himself using a Hacker 50S with 6.7:1 gearbox drive a 17x18 folder using 1kW of power to replace slope/thermal/dynamic lift. Not sure it is available.

Baudis would probably modify the pure soarer in return for some extra euros!

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10 minutes ago, Phil.Taylor said:

My suggestion - get an Ahi ! And have lots of fun flying aeros with it while you build a Classic Phase 6 Sport ( not the symmetrical one)

The Ahi will fly in anything from 3-30mph - it's amazingly agile but can also be flown smoothly - will do absolutely all the aeros you can think of - and some more. Oh,and it's light so if you "land" a bit wrong it won't smash to pieces like a molded plane.

Phil.

So the Ahi is a sort of pre-packed, bung-in-the-mincrowave Le Fish really?  Looks most interesting as a step-up, and might also open up more opportunities for less windy days and more marginal local slopes.  I once had the Libelle which I loathed as a pretend DLG, but at least it was useful in teaching me to slope with ailerons before building the straight-wing Middle Phase.

Re the Phase 6, why the 'sport' wing and not the symmetrical ('professional') one?  Is it just a question of needing big winds and huge lift to maintain altitude?

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5 hours ago, StraightEdge said:

PS Tony, why not retrofit servos in your Phase 6 wing. 

I have considered it, it would be a worthwhile mod too, but I just haven’t got the time.  (or the skills, but mainly the time!) 

 

Tony

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I've got a many times repaired and modified and repaired again Wasabi, 60 inch symmetrical foil aerobat. It flies in a Gnats fart to a hoolie. Don't be scared of symmetrical. Just don't try to float them around. Same goes for most planes. Up elevator is a brake that leads to stalling. Keep em running.

If the phase 6 is ailerons driven by individual servos (a worthwhile mod if it isnt), any 1/4 decent radio will let you camber the trailing edge for more lift if you need it.

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13 minutes ago, StraightEdge said:

So the Ahi is a sort of pre-packed, bung-in-the-mincrowave Le Fish really?  

Re the Phase 6, why the 'sport' wing and not the symmetrical ('professional') one?  Is it just a question of needing big winds and huge lift to maintain altitude?

Phase 6 symmetrical = brick ( even with camber flaps) a

If you like building - go more retro & build a Phase 5 from the plans - reputed to be a better plane than the 6. Saw one on the slope this summer - flew great.

Ahi is a much better flier than the LeFish.

Phil.

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Hi Phil

This year there has been a rash of ISA builder/flyers starting making Phase 5's....I've see two of them finished, but not the other 2-3 promised....when they are all finished and flown I'll try to get as many as possible to fly them on ISA Nostalgia Day 2019. They have a wide range of wind speeds they work in.....we'll just have to see if I can provide the conditions that get them working

Conspiracy theorists say that the Phase 5 was the last design that Chris Foss produced that couldn't be kitted easily, they say there were a LOT of mods introduced into the Phase 6 to make it simpler to kit and to build, and the Phase 5 was inherently more valuable due to its scarcity........ I can only say that just about every one I have seen being flown was definitely NOT for sale......

I've flown both Phase 6 wings on my "symmetrical" fus, it sported a little sort of cradle that made the root shape fit the "Sport" wing, and am pretty sure the "Get the Sport version, it's easier to fly" was what "low hours" aero trainees said to hide their lack of practice on the symmetrical wing version also known as the "Professional" version.....which scared off quite a few beginners......as Skip said, you had to keep the speed up on a "Pro" and the first thing beginners did when finding themselves sans lift was to bang in the UP elevator......as we all know, up elevator cures everything......especially flight:)

DavidW seems to always have a smile on his face when flying his Ahi, and his only complaint with it is "How do they get away with charging so much for a couple of ounces of moulded foam!"....'nuff said:yes::)

Regards

Pete

BARCS1702

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4 hours ago, SilentPilot said:

I have considered it, it would be a worthwhile mod too, but I just haven’t got the time.  (or the skills, but mainly the time!) 

 

Tony

Tony, It might be easier than you think to add a second servo. My original Phase 6 still has two servos in the centre of the wing, one acts as a flap servo driving a mechanical mixer on top of the normal aileron servo (the radio had no mixers in those days).     My subsequent Phase 6 uses two servos in the centre making use of available mixing options on the Tx these days.  Flap to climb, elevator/flap for aeros, and up-going ailerons for landing. The servos are one behind the other not side by side.   :-)

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The Ahi is a hoot and a great recommendation. The flat spins are great fun.

But I wouldn't rule out any moulded f3f/b ship even an older one as a good next step. They sometimes come up at very reasonable prices (from £250) and are mostly very aerobatic with a huge dynamic envelope and are very easy to fly (much easier than a phase 6)! 

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11 minutes ago, Peter G said:

The Ahi is a hoot and a great recommendation. The flat spins are great fun.

But I wouldn't rule out any moulded f3f/b ship even an older one as a good next step. They sometimes come up at very reasonable prices (from £250) and are mostly very aerobatic with a huge dynamic envelope and are very easy to fly (much easier than a phase 6)! 

Yep - This one!

I am  much more likely to be flying aerobatics with an F3F type plane than a Phase 6 type plane. I have a Voltij which is perfect for aeros -  but the F3Fs fly so much better 😊 Ahi is on a different level though - yep it's a hoot.

Phil.

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