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Richard Swindells

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pete beadle

Hi OPF and Tom

I think that most people believe it is the courts whose job is to enforce these regulations......trouble is, it's NOT their job

UK Courts do not instigate actions under law, their executive arm, the UK's police forces do that. 

The UK's Chief Constable confirmed recently that, with the financial cutbacks they have suffered under the catch-all of austerity, his force is already too stretched to do it's job properly and is rapidly becoming "not fit for purpose" as a result

When I asked who would actually enforce these new regulations I wasn't joking....the courts can't, the police can't, the CAA can't, the National Trust can't,  local councils can't.....the authorities are relying on model flyers to regulate themselves, if they can't or won't, there's very little any one else can do.......  

Regards

Pete

BARCS1702

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Steve J
1 hour ago, pete beadle said:

When I asked who would actually enforce these new regulations I wasn't joking....the courts can't, the police can't, the CAA can't, the National Trust can't,  local councils can't.....

Short answer: The police.

Longer answer: There is a memorandum of understanding between the Home Office, DfT, police and CAA that sets out roles and responsibilities regarding 'drones'.

Steve

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pete beadle

Hi SteveJ

I counted four instances of  the comment "The police do not have the resources to answer every request" - I rest my case.........

Regards

Pete

BARCS1702 

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Sloper
18 hours ago, pete beadle said:

 

When I asked who would actually enforce these new regulations I wasn't joking....the courts can't, the police can't, the CAA can't, the National Trust can't,  local councils can't.....

Looks like Coventry council can....

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-46751423

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SilentPilot

£50 might get you permission 😯

Funny how everything nowadays seems to revolve around taxes or fines instead of getting to the root of the issue...

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pete beadle

Hi Sloper

I'm not surprised - are you?

Here in NW London we have experienced problems with Brent and  Barnet Councils  off and on over the last 30-40 years

Both Brent and Barnet Councils had a blanket ban on ALL types of model flying in all of their Open Spaces for some 20-30 years plus , largely because they hadn't been approached in the right way. Local residents now have the option to fly at Northwick Park Open Space in Brent with regulated times for IC powerered  models, and gliders and electric launch gliders, all day every day. This has achieved by non-confrontational negotiation and has worked well over many years now

We're still working on Barnet but our approaches have been favourably received on two of their Open Spaces, and whenever I personally have flown there I've acted in a sort of "positive PR" manner with anyone else using these Open Spaces at the same time to explain that, in my opinion we are/were NOT flying drones and that we model flyers, especially glider guiders are provably NOT the problem

Personally, I'd suggest you get in touch with the Parks and Recreation department of Coventry Council to open a channel of co-operative dialogue as soon as possible. I've found local councils to largely be open-minded and non-confrontational when approached the right way. I'd be happy to help you with this if you want me to....oh, and please remember, when you're dealing with councils it will usually be the BYELAWS you'll be working with, not the law of the land......and you'd be co-operating with the council on the flying of model aircraft, especially model gliders, NOT drones.....please make that clear from the start

Regards

Pete

BARCS1702

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Jef Ott
On 03/01/2019 at 06:56, Richard Swindells said:

... The law I am referring to is that we are still considered to be a SUA pilot (small unmanned aircraft) so will be required to register AND take a relevant compitancy test AND display the CAA supplied registration number on our aircraft.

..... 

Richard 

What weight of models does this apply to?

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simon_t
1 hour ago, Jef Ott said:

What weight of models does this apply to?

250g +.   It is hoped that BMFA membership (maybe with appropriate rating) will cover the competency and registration, but the EU regulation guidance is for every model above 250g to be registered.  And ultimately it is planned that anything above 250g will have some form of transponder (e.g. ADS-B),  but the technology will have to continue to shrink for that, and even then  imagine fitting that to every model....  However much we ***** and moan unfortunately we won’t be able to enjoy the freedoms we have been afforded in the past.

Simon

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tonym

I see a new class of glider competition weighing under 250g, (F3K can already do this) so as not to have a) registration, and b) transponder.

1m, maybe 1.2m, electric F5J anyone? 6 minute slot so as not to have to fly too high for sight reasons maybe?

  • Haha 1

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Jef Ott

Kites... do they have to be registered etc? 
An aeroplane on a bungee is a kite... if the attachment of the kite comes undone does it fail to be called a kite?

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cirrusRC

Kites have been limited to 60 meters for a long time and covered under article 92 of the ANO 2016.   Looking at the 2018 amendments it implies kites and balloons under 20kg will be exempt.  

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Jef Ott
28 minutes ago, cirrusRC said:

Kites have been limited to 60 meters for a long time and covered under article 92 of the ANO 2016.   Looking at the 2018 amendments it implies kites and balloons under 20kg will be exempt.  

What length bungees do the 2m RES brigade use?

 

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Steve J
On 03/01/2019 at 14:16, pete beadle said:

I asked who would actually enforce these new regulations I wasn't joking....the courts can't, the police can't

It appears that the police and courts can.

£2000 fine for flying a model aircraft within 1km of the Heathrow perimeter.

http://news.met.police.uk/news/man-pleads-guilty-to-flying-model-aeroplane-near-heathrow-354704

Steve

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pete beadle

Hi SteveJ

A few comments, if I may......

Firstly, that court was a Magistrates court, second pleading guilty is NOT recommended by Citizens advice, they recommend you plead NOT GUILTY and go to a jury, if you believe you are actually intending pleading your INNOCENCE  and thirdly, there is no mention of the model being a drone......

Quote - "A man has pleaded guilty to contravening the Air Navigation Order 2016 by flying a model aeroplane near the perimeter of Heathrow Airport"
Quote - "The court also ordered that his model plane be destroyed"......in my opinion this flyer, who ADMITTED  his guilt, was not tried under the new legislation but under the pre-existing rules regarding the flying of model aircraft

Notwithstanding that I obviously don't condone what he did, simply that the Metropolitan Police do not issue misleading information and, if this had been a drone he was flying, they would have said it was a drone, and specified that it was the new legislation  that had been contravened

And, yes, I am aware that we model flyers ARE being included in the new drone legislation and would have no complaint whatsoever if the new regulations were quoted in the listing of this offence

Further, in a piece on drones on BBC One's "Breakfast" programme yesterday, the new regulations were quoted correctly as having a FIVE kilometre distance of application, not the one kilometre of the old  wording here

.....and finally, I confirm I have no intention of trying to approve or justify what this fool did, and believe his penalty was just and proportionate to the crime he committed

Regards

Pete

BARCS1702  

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Steve J

What are you going on about? The guy was caught by the police flying a small unmanned aircraft within 1km of the Heathrow perimeter without permission from ATC in clear violation of ANO article 94B. 

Steve

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pete beadle

Hi SteveJ

Quote - "What are you going on about? - unquote

Sorry, I thought we were commenting on Richard Swindells original post regarding the Gatwick runway closures?

Your comments refer to an incident on 24th December at Heathrow:huh: .......

Regards

Pete

BARCS1702

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Lloyd_d

Ok only 'Protected Aerodromes' are the issue

Edited by Lloyd_d
Receieved correct information on new rules

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