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Steve J

CAA registration consultation

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Steve J
12 hours ago, Darren_O said:

 they cannot distinguish drones from model aircraft. 

Not this again.

1) Define 'drone' and 'model aircraft'.

2) Come up with an argument as to why your toys should be treated differently to other peoples toys taking into account the fact that the two collisions (as apposed to airproxes) between manned and unmanned aircraft in the UK involved gliders.

The split that they see to be going for is between people who can do an basic online multiple choice test and those who can't. I am starting to see their point. 

Steve

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pete beadle

Hi SteveJ

Or why not classify models as..........  a) SUAV's flown for recreation/pleasure purposes(ie toys ) and ......... b) SUAV's  that are flown for commercial purposes (ie Drones)

I'm pretty sure that any government department would be happier to concentrate on b) for tax raising rather than a), wouldn't you?

I don't mind any government body describing our models as toys as long as they tax the models they classify as Drones

A suggestion, I believe, that Margaret Thatcher would have accepted in an instant:thumbsup:

Regards

Pete

BARCS1702

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Steve J
54 minutes ago, pete beadle said:

Or why not classify models as..........  a) SUAV's flown for recreation/pleasure purposes(ie toys ) and ......... b) SUAV's  that are flown for commercial purposes (ie Drones)

That is a split by use. An airframe could be used for recreation at the weekend and for commercial use during the week by the same person.

55 minutes ago, pete beadle said:

I'm pretty sure that any government department would be happier to concentrate on b) for tax raising rather than a), wouldn't you?

 

On 29/04/2019 at 20:37, Steve J said:

The CAA is asking about the fee and how the system should be paid for. They are not asking if you think that there should be a registration system. That ship sailed a long time ago. The fact that they are asking "Do you have alternative ideas about how the CAA could cover the costs of running the registration scheme?" indicates to me that they know that £16.50 / year is too much. I told them that the registration system should be paid for out of the taxes that the treasury will get from commercial unmanned aircraft operations.

Steve

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Darren_O
5 hours ago, Steve J said:

Not this again.

1) Define 'drone' and 'model aircraft'.

2) Come up with an argument as to why your toys should be treated differently to other peoples toys taking into account the fact that the two collisions (as apposed to airproxes) between manned and unmanned aircraft in the UK involved gliders.

The split that they see to be going for is between people who can do an basic online multiple choice test and those who can't. I am starting to see their point. 

Steve

1: I can't hence unpowered argument.
2: Despite the two collisions there were no mass hysteria headlines or airport closures.

 

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Darren_O

I've just had a DM off Baroness Vere on twitter. She's listening to the unpowered argument, up to us to make our case Baroness.Vere@dft.gov.uk

Despite being a Tory, she's very reasonable. Please argue our exemption. You can always shrug and do nothing and argue the toss with me on here if you like but she's genuinely interested.

Ball is in our court. Suggest you email her and ask for gliders to be exempted due to them being easily distinguishable from the "toys" they want to target. They don't want to scoop us all up. We've just been caught in the net.  

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Steve J

@Darrren_O How many modellers only fly unpowered gliders? What do you want to be exempted from? The registration fee or the test? Why should the rest of us pay and not you?  What is the BMFA motto?

Steve

PS You better not tell her that the fastest RC models are unpowered gliders.

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wookman

Now is not the time to be arguing about what a drone is or isn't or who is getting taxed or not. Registration of some sort is coming, fact. The argument over how useful it will be to the CAA to have an extensive list of who hasn't caused the next drone/airport fiasco is not relevant. 

The only important thing is that we all get behind the BMFA to help them get a sensible agreement that will protect the future of the hobby we all enjoy. Our strength, such as it is, is in sticking together as aeromodellers. All of us, together.

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PeteMitchell
17 minutes ago, wookman said:

Our strength, such as it is, is in sticking together as aeromodellers. All of us, together.

Thanks for that wookman, probably the most sensible comment in this thread

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abbof3f
On 04/05/2019 at 21:59, Maria Freeman said:

What did they say ?

Lo,Lo,Lo whats all this then ? lol

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abbof3f
7 hours ago, Steve J said:

@Darrren_O How many modellers only fly unpowered gliders? What do you want to be exempted from? The registration fee or the test? Why should the rest of us pay and not you?  What is the BMFA motto?

Steve

PS You better not tell her that the fastest RC models are unpowered gliders.

Whats Dsing?

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satinet
On 04/05/2019 at 21:59, Maria Freeman said:

What did they say ?

A lot of nothing. Basically wanted to know if there was a camera. Bear in mind this was an f3b/f model and he claimed to be a drone flyer. Wanted to know my details for some reason.

I decided to be polite and friendly as a representative of the club.

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EssexBOF
9 hours ago, abbof3f said:

Whats Dsing?

I presume Dynamic Soaring

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EssexBOF
11 hours ago, wookman said:

Now is not the time to be arguing about what a drone is or isn't or who is getting taxed or not. Registration of some sort is coming, fact. The argument over how useful it will be to the CAA to have an extensive list of who hasn't caused the next drone/airport fiasco is not relevant. 

The only important thing is that we all get behind the BMFA to help them get a sensible agreement that will protect the future of the hobby we all enjoy. Our strength, such as it is, is in sticking together as aeromodellers. All of us, together.

Absolutely right. We will get no where by diluting our strength in numbers. The majority of flat field soaring gliders, are now flown using electric power.

The waters have become a bit muddier with drones in the form of flying wing type with a camera on board , whereas when they started as multi rota type, were easily separated as a class. My personal view, is that if it has Auto stabilization and carry's a camera with FPV, it is a drone. The fact of auto stabilization has meant that anybody can fly a drone with limited knowledge, plus outside normal vision parameters. OK I know you can fit a gyro in a model, but for the majority and competition models are banned from using them.

Quite how someone flew a drone at 14,000 feet within 90ft of a Virgin jet , as reported last week, find difficult to believe, due to the speeds involved and the eye to focus that easily on such a small object, to judge as to what was actually seen.

BARCS 230

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satinet

There is an obvious an undeniable difference between a glider and a non glider. Full sized pilot regulations aren't the same for gliders and non gliders. 

People have been touting the electric 'safety' angle for a while. You can't have it both ways.  Most people in fact probably fly both types but no-one can argue that a glider is anything like a drone. 

I doubt a glider exemption will happen, but it would be better than nothing. 

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Steve J
59 minutes ago, satinet said:

no-one can argue that a glider is anything like a drone. 

 

solar-wing-praxis.jpg

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wookman

Well I guess that finishes off that discussion once and for all.

The distinction is not hugely relevant.

Get behind the BMFA, integrate the quad-copter and the hexacopter flyers if that gives us a bigger voice. What ever it takes to protect the hobby/sport from unnecessary and/or draconian regulations that make it difficult to attract newcomers and keep existing people active.

Today's quad-copter flying youngsters might be the next generation of "proper" aeromodellers.

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satinet
5 hours ago, Steve J said:

 

solar-wing-praxis.jpg

It's either got a means of propulsion or it hasn't. Well done for being so clever.

I'm talking about something under continuous pilot control within line of sight. I.e within current regs. 

Maybe you need to calm it down a bit when someone has an idea that's might be slightly different than what you think. No one thinks any of this is good. 

Re fastest models. What's that got to do with anything. No one cares about what a few americans are doing up a hill. The regs are there because of public perception of drones. E.g gatwick. Whether you like it or not. 

Different rules already exist for different types of models e.g over 7kg. Emg gliders and failsafes. It hasn't resulted in the break up of the bmfa and the end of western civilization as we know it. 

Are you going to campaign to get under 250g included as well.

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EssexBOF

A bit of positive news

 

Yesterday (3/5/2019), the BMFA's CEO has been contacted and asked to attend a meeting with the Aviation Minister, Baroness Vere of Norbiton.

This has come about directly because of YOUR reaction to the CAA's proposal, completing the consultation and emailing the CAA, Aviation Minister and your MP.

YOU HAVE MADE THIS HAPPEN!

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mikef
2 hours ago, EssexBOF said:

......

YOU HAVE MADE THIS HAPPEN!

Great isn't it!  But please, do still send the emails as called for here if you haven't already.

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Dave Elam

I've just emailed Baroness Vere. It took 10 minutes out of my day. Not much really. Please do the same as it must surely help.

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