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mhodgson

EMP Algebra 2.5m

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Marc Sinclair

Hi Pete

 

Thanks for the head's up.

I have a love/hate relationship with V-tails...I see the sense but dislike the aesthetics.  Most of my flying will be off the flat anyways and makes sense what you say about having more rudder authority on launch.

When I  look at these incredible modern big-buck carbon kevlar glass ships that seem to be engineered to the micron in accuracy, I fully appreciate the costs... These are works of high engineering art (IMHO)… But yes the reality for someone on  low income is to go down the build it yourself/members market route, which is a good thing also.  

Cheers

Marc

 

 

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timboiow

Marc,

don't underestimate what a good home built model can provide in terms of performance and the "feel-good factor" - Colin P & Kev B proglide shows what can be achieved without going the moulded route, and the Hollein Insite seems to have decent performance for the money if you don't want to "roll your own". The most important bit of any plane, is the enjoyment you get from it regardless of cost/complexity, and if you out flying it and enjoying it then it is doing what it needs to do.

Also anyone else remember the Dave Jones modded Algebra 4M he wrote up in QFI, now that was a nice looking machine......

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mhodgson

Brian Austin seems to do quite well with his home build.

I remember Dave Jones and the 4m Algebra.  I also rememmber the 'comments' because he changed so much from the kit.

That said it towed and flew well.

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pete beadle

Hi all

Oh dear. you've hit a nerve there with DJ's Algebra 4M.....Dick was adamant that DJ had started an Algebra 4M  but he didn't know what plane he'd finished up with:no::(!

Most competition pilots would tell you that, if they had the money, they'd buy one of the new breed of lightweight, all carbon  beauties like a shot!

I still remember the days when I was flying my dear old Proton and assessed my success in the comp by how many mouldies I'd beaten! It was never a lot, but I used to just love pointing it out to anyone who'd listen:):yes:

Regards

Pete

BARCS1702

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Marc Sinclair
4 hours ago, timboiow said:

Marc,

don't underestimate what a good home built model can provide in terms of performance and the "feel-good factor" - Colin P & Kev B proglide shows what can be achieved without going the moulded route, and the Hollein Insite seems to have decent performance for the money if you don't want to "roll your own". The most important bit of any plane, is the enjoyment you get from it regardless of cost/complexity, and if you out flying it and enjoying it then it is doing what it needs to do.

Also anyone else remember the Dave Jones modded Algebra 4M he wrote up in QFI, now that was a nice looking machine......

Agreed tim 100%, thx.

 

Thread I found on Algebra 4m: 

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?490656-A-Blast-from-the-Past!-4m-Algebra

 

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pete beadle

Hi Slap

The BIG problem with the Algebra was the glass fuselage.......it was the same one as fitted to the 2M2.5M, and 3M........unfortunately it needed to be 3-4 inches longer to work as an R/E on a 4M:yes:

What Dick did to try to get round the lack of adequate "leverage" needed on the R/E, was to widen the fin with a strip of 1/4" balsa at the rear, and then to attach a MUCH bigger rudder  that looked completely out of proportion to the rest of the model.

Dave Jones' modification of taking out the polyhedral, and fitting ailerons was a logical mod.....as it was, the 4M R/E flew like a barge and dutch-rolled constantly.......Dave's modified version was a pussycat and didn't need a bigger fin and rudder so was much better proportioned as a bonus

I didn't tell Dick that, but just got on with flying the 3M R/E which, to me, was perfectly proportioned and a pleasure to fly.....indeed it's still one of my favourite R/E models:thumbsup:

Regards

Pete

BARCS1702

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Marc Sinclair

Thanks for the insider news Pete.  The Algebra seems to have gone through a fair bit of change/mods in one form or another. 

I am warming towards the built up wing versions as fare-future building projects. Save money/enjoyment/satisfaction etc. 

So many amazing designs out there, new and old alike. 

 

 

cache_600_600_0_100_80_16777215_wing-small.jpg

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pete beadle

Hi Marc

Dick Edmonds used to produce fully built up versions of the Algebra too.......the 800 and 1000,  with rolled ply fuselages, BTW the numbers referred to the wing area of each design......:yes:

They didn't sell well, because people didn't really seem to appreciate the reasoning behind the "rolled ply" system, and worried about the need to make a jig first, in order to make the fuselage......."too much of a faff" was the most heard comment, especially as the glass Algebra fuselages were so good, buyers just didn't seem to see the point of "all the complication" of the rolled ply ones, indeed several 800 and 1000 buyers bought glass fuselages from EMP and loved the combination(!)

Recently, a part built 1000 appeared on BMFA for pennies, that would have been a good buy for someone! I'm sure there are still part built specimens out there available for very reasonable prices, there just don't seem to be the builders out there any more!.......perhaps YOU could prove me wrong. yes?:)

BTW I notice the X-RES that's been on BMFA  for a week or so , hasn't sold yet either:no:

Regards

Pete

BARCS1702

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Marc Sinclair

Hi Pete

Good to know about those figures being related to wing area. God you are a treasure-trove of RC soaring info! Thx

I am going to build a sneaky work bench of sorts in my bedroom to one day prove you wrong sir! ( in the nicest of ways):).   

Thanks for the heads up on BMFA site.

One has got to love the old Algebra glass fuselage that's for sure. 

 

Cheers!

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John Minchell

Yes Pete - have a part built EMP Algebra 800 in the loft which I tripped over when trying to find somethin to fly in Martyn Kinder's 2M bungee launch RES woodie class postal (email) monthly comp.  Might have to shorten the wingspan a little.

John M

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pete beadle

Hi John

Just in case......IF you want to sell it rather than mod it, can I suggest HERE might be the place and NOW might be the time!

Not for me, I have to say immediately, but seems there might be a little Algebra resurgence here and now.....

If not, can you get the 800 into RTF condition for ISA Nostalgia Day on September 14 at Ivinghoe? and YES it's shameless plug time again!:yes: 

Regards

Pete

BARCS1702

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Marc Sinclair

 

 

Edmonds-MP.jpg.89eaa6cca945b553fcb2bb9779139d1c.jpg

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Tony

The chap who  did the wing as you see it now we were in touch with each other a while back when he designed the wing.  Not the guy who sells it.  We both had spare new fuselages and I was wondering what to do with mine. Brain cells bit rusty as I can't remember the gents name, apologies. He's normally on the scale glider forums. He kept the wing  section to the original foam winged version, 7037. If you go to the scale page you can find the original build under "non scale" he did it 18 months or longer ago if memory serves

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martynk

Peter Balcombe?

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Peter

A little anecdote. I used to help Dick when he had a stand at the annual Sandown show and the main sellers were the Algebra 2.5 and 3m. People would often come to the stand and ask 'what is the duration performance difference between the rolled ply fuselage and the glass version?'

Dick would think carefully and reply  'about 3 seconds' then add 'but I don't know which way!'

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timboiow

Anyone out there know what happened to Daves gliders after him untimely passing , be interesting to see if the old 4M is still around somewhere ?

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John Minchell

Pete

I won't have time to finish build the Algebra 800, but anticipate finishing your designed ISA 100 and a Multi Phase as well as a couple of others.  Might even bring the Stu Blanchard Calypso's if there is a good blow.  Need to get a B&B organised too.

John M

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RSH

Can  anyone help me identify these 2 fuselages found lurking in the loft.  I think the pink one is an  Algebra, but not sure which version.IMG_3175.JPG.d53befcc097e0984c4939950f36d022d.JPGIMG_3176.JPG.09459cfb7cfcb17436326695619d8b04.JPG

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mhodgson

The pink one is an EMP Algebra.

The other looks like an early Czech made  fuselage that was being sold at Interglide back in the 90's when they first visited UK (in Oxford) to help fund there trip. I had one.

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mhodgson

The pink one is an EMP Algebra.

The other looks like an early Czech made  fuselage that was being sold at Interglide back in the 90's when they first visited UK (in Oxford) to help fund there trip. I had one.

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