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pete beadle

Meeting with Baroness Vere of Norbiton on 4th June 2019

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pete beadle

Hi Marc

YES, BARCS members are insured for 3rd party risks by being members of BMFA who offer this insurance:thumbsup:

As GRJ says, please join the BMFA to get your 3rd Party insurance......these are other good reasons for joining the BMFA but insurance is the no 1!:yes:

It looks like your suggestion is, in effect,that clubs do all the work while we just go flying! ..........NOT gonna happen!:no:

Most clubs require that, if you want to join their club you MUST join the BMFA, usually they have club instructors too, for training newbies.....they usually also have a club treasurer whose job is to deal with the club's finances.........it is ALWAYS a good move to join your local club......contact the BMFA and they'll tell you who this is:)

Regards

Pete

BARCS1702 

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Marc Sinclair

Ok thanks chaps. I wasn't aware that I had to join BMFA as part of my joining here. Apologies if I missed something. I will join BMFA asap.

How much is it to join? 

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Marc Sinclair

I've registered on BMFA site but will have to wait until payday to get the insurance etc. As far as I can see the cost to join is £38 which is valid until Dec 2019.   

 

Regards

 

Marc 

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Marc Sinclair

Thanks Graham. Pm sent.

Regards

 

Marc 

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EssexBOF

A government database intended to store the personal details of around 150,000 drone fliers is set to cost around £4m plus to buy and £2.8m to maintain – despite a similar database costing Defra just £300k a year.

The Civil Aviation Authority's (CAA) planned database of drone fliers is to comply with new EU laws and will also make it mandatory for anyone flying a drone weighing more than 250g to register with the state.

Industry talk about the cost of the database is growing: sources familiar with the matter tell us the CAA has decided to outsource the database to the Department for Transport (DfT), which owns the CAA. We are also told that DfT estimates for procuring the database, which government staffers think will cater for around 175,000 users, come in at £4.1m upfront with a further £2.8m in annual running costs.

Putting aside the idiocy of regulating children's toys with the criminal law, drone fliers and makers alike are nervous that the database will simply be used by British bureaucrats as a profit-making exercise at their expense.

As Brendan Schulman of Chinese drone manufacturer DJI tweeted, if whatever price charged for the system is simply passed on direct to drone enthusiasts along with a profit margin for the civil service, the registration scheme will fail.

A departmental spokeswoman referred us to a recent CAA consultation about the database, and quoted a paragraph from that document stating:

"Under the 'user pays' principle, and as a statutory corporation, the CAA must recover the costs from those it regulates. In putting forward this proposal, the CAA is seeking to balance the interests of users to keep charges as low as possible, whilst ensuring that the charges cover the costs of running the scheme."

The DfT did not dispute the price or cost estimates put to it by The Register. The CAA consultation reckons that if 175,000 people freely volunteer to be put on a government database, the price per head will be £16.50 per year – an optimistic hope.

Yet not so long ago, another government department managed to run a similar database while costing an order of magnitude less. Back in the 2000s the Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra) ran a database of 50,000 game shooters, who at the time had to register with the Post Office for a licence to shoot certain bird species. Like the CAA today has outsourced to the DfT, so the Post Office outsourced its database to Defra.

That database cost just £300,000 annually to run, as a recent Freedom of Information request revealed (PDF). Although it was scrapped in 2007, applying inflation to that £300k from 2007 brings it up to around £488,000 today.

Where does the order of magnitude increase in the cost to run a straightforward database of names, contact details and "bought licence y/n" tickboxes come from? DfT wouldn't say, though one potential answer lies in the entirely fictional figures for the size of the UK drone market being bandied around by consultants. Perhaps government workers thought there was a much bigger market for them to impose new taxes on. ®

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EssexBOF

This has appeared which may solve a lot of problems, apart from registering

CAA has published the exemptions for Unmanned Aerial Vehicles flying above 400 feet after the date of new rules entering in force. Because there are exmptions. By our understanding, you can fly your model above 400 feet and up to 1000 feet in FPV mode, as long as it's not a drone which declared by two conditions:

Cannot be multi-rotor (tri-, quadro-, hexa-, octocopter, etc...)

Cannot have automatic flying capabilities making the UAV able to fly on its own (like "return to home" functionality)

Thereafter, if you are member of BMFA, SAA, LMA or FPF UK, you are not flying in C or E controlled airspaces or any operational airspace at an airport, airfield or aerodrome or restriced airspaces, the model is not heavier than 7kg (excluding fuel including batteries) your are allowed to fly up as high as you can see, which means there are no legal changes on conventional (aka traditional) model flying after 30th July.

When you are flying in FPV mode with your traditional model (most likely fixed wing aircraft), you are allowed to fly up to 1000 feet, when your model is not heavier than 3.5 kg (INCLUDING fuel), you still respect the traditional model flying rules (150m and 50m rules as before - no flying in cities, above football match, cars, vessels, houses except yours), and you must be supervised or aided by a competent observer - your buddy who is able to control the airspace for you.

These great exemptions are available below. I think United Kingdom has proven again, the tradition as a word has got power in the country. Thanks to the board of UK model flying associations (like BMFA and especially Dave Phipps) and the constructive cooperation of Civil Aviation Authority these really amazing exeptions will enter in force with new UAV airspace regulations together. Therefore we will have no change even after 30th July.

UK Associations permissionUK Model Aircraft Associations Permission.pdf2.23 MB

This is the CAA published PDF containing everything about the exemptions given to members of UK model flying associations.

FPV exemptions between 400ft and 1000ftUK Model Aircraft Associations FPV Exemption (003).pdf3.72 MB

This document contains the rules of FPV flying between 400ft and 1000ft with conventional model aircrafts

 

 

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EssexBOF

 It came to me via Facebook , Ian ,so thought it to be current,my apologies.

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Nicholls

Thanks Steve.

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wookman

Statements of that nature are ill informed and unhelpful, in or out of context.

It does provide a window into what we are up against though.

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wookman

They are not happy out there in Drone Land. And rightly so!

Once the genie is out of the bottle no amount of apologising is going to coax it back.

The expression was not uttered off the cuff, it is apparently well known and well used by Mr Sage.

Sage by name, perhaps not quite so sage by nature.

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Steve J

I don't understand the fuss over Andy Sage's comment. The FAA have been using the expression "clueless, careless and criminal" to describe people who fly SUA outside the law for at least a year. The acting administrator of the FAA used the terms at a conference earlier this month.

Steve

PS I am still waiting for the transcript to be published, but I am sure that much more important things were said during the meeting.

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paulj
On 20/06/2019 at 20:26, EssexBOF said:

Industry talk about the cost of the database is growing: sources familiar with the matter tell us the CAA has decided to outsource the database to the Department for Transport (DfT), which owns the CAA. We are also told that DfT estimates for procuring the database, which government staffers think will cater for around 175,000 users, come in at £4.1m upfront with a further £2.8m in annual running costs.

That database cost just £300,000 annually to run, as a recent Freedom of Information request revealed (PDF). Although it was scrapped in 2007, applying inflation to that £300k from 2007 brings it up to around £488,000 today.

 

I find these numbers beyond ridiculous. We have an in house database system at work which we use to manage all our maintenance activity. It originally ran in access, has multiple users, and is built and maintained by one person. It also has rather more information than would be generated by 175000 users. Of course I am aware of the need for a more commercial solution to the drone user database, but even with some serious servers, and redundancy, it still shouldn't be near £300k, let alone £4M with nearly £3M running costs per year. Maybe they need to put it out for tender again - if they think that sort of money is acceptable, I might be tempted to put an offer in!

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pete beadle

Hi David

Hopefully, I'll see you there

I've been wanting to see Dave Phipps in action on our behalf

Regards

Pete

BARCS1702

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f3fisa

See you at Portcullis House before 09.30am and you can meet Charlotte as well.

The witnesses always hang about in the corridor beforehand.

David.

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