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pete beadle

Meeting with Baroness Vere of Norbiton on 4th June 2019

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pete beadle

Hi stevej

Earlier today you asked sloper this -

Quote -1 hour ago, Steve J said:

The police can only act if the law is being broken. What new rules do you think that you will be breaking this December or July next year?

Steve - unquote

Baroness Vere looked very happy with herself earlier when stating she would be bringing a law into effect, that anyone flying a drone who had not passed the necessary test, would be guilty of a crime, which would be enforced by the police officer establishing that fact, and who would then  be able to issue a caution to that effect, and demand an on-the-spot fine........ effectively criminalising the flyer concerned and bypassing the court system......good enough?

BTW I still haven't heard back from you regarding the 50 metre limit  on the "no-fly zone" between flyers and the public........did I miss it?

Regards

Pete

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Steve J
11 minutes ago, pete beadle said:

I still haven't heard back from you regarding the 50 metre limit  on the "no-fly zone" between flyers and the public........did I miss it?

When did I refer to a 50m limit? The only 50m limit that I am aware of is for SUSA.

Steve

PS Is there a reason that you don't use the forum quoting system?

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EssexBOF
7 hours ago, pete beadle said:

Hi Brian

Don't be dismayed....:(

No sooner did the Baroness trot all this out (BTW she is nicknamed  Julie Andrews, by her less respectful staff - see the vid - see the reason) when Tim Loughton MP responded by saying "Why is she trying to re-invent the wheel?" as there is already a structure in place, of clubs and associations, which is perfectly capable of doing what she wants.....This is why I posted the subject "Thank you Tim Loughton MP"........ straight away:yes::)

Look at the vid of Tim's rebuttal to Julie Andrews and you'll see most of want you wanted, said.....I promise you it'll be an uplifting watch.....and you'll also see there are three, yes three, more MP's agreeing with Tim!:yes: 

Regards

Pete

BARCS1702

You need to point me in the direction to view that, Pete

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Lloyd_d

I suggest you all setup a face to face with your MP. I am going to meet with mine. You need to make an appointment. Explain your concerns about these clueless people making decisions that will kill our hobby.

 

Not sure if this is a proposal or genuine:

 

1. Foundation test; 40 multiple choice questions, online

2. Additional certificate of competency (CofC); 30 multiple choice questions, at venues run by organisations such as NQE's

 

Both valid for 5yrs Limit to VLOS, 400ft from surface

 

Categories:

A1 - over people - C0-1 types

A2 - within 5m horizontally from people, low speed mode + additional competency C0-2 types - 30m horizontally from people C0-2 types

A3 - middle of nowhere (not even a park - reasonable expectation that no people will be within 50m+ horizontal, and 150m from residential, commercial, industrial or recreational areas)

 

C0-4 types Drone class types:

C0 - up to 250g, up to 19m/s, 120m range (RF, geofenced), 24V, no minimum age

C1 - up to 900g / 80J collision energy, 19m/s, frangible, height limit, 24V, electronic conspicuity, geofencing, lights, 85dBA@? down to 81dB in 2024 (these and future emissions regs will be the end of IC engined models)

C2 - up to 4kg, frangible, 48V, 3m/s low speed mode(unless FW), height, electronic conspicuity, geofencing, up to 12dB extra for max weight

C3 - up to 25kg, up to 3m, 48V, automatic control modes + height, electronic conspicuity, geofencing

C4 - up to 25kg, stabilisation, no automation

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Lloyd_d

Frangible WTF... so we'll all have to Fly FLY FLY models :) 

Guess RCRCM will be ok since there tails break off as soon as you look at them

Looks like 12s is the voltage limit for larger models/classes and the smaller models/classes 6s

Geofencing will be required on anything over 250g (toy threshold)

Geofencing by means of weak RF signal on the <250g toys

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Steve J
35 minutes ago, Lloyd_d said:

Not sure if this is a proposal or genuine:

This table from CAP 1789 is a better summary of the open category in the EU regulations:

555808712_1789table.jpg.e6030da154b9fe0f0a2cc4ea4847122d.jpg

Association members should end up with a better deal (just like we do at the moment)...

Steve

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Lloyd_d

That's it thanks

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pete beadle

Hi Brian

Quote "You need to point me in the direction to view that, Pete"........here goes........

If you go to the subject immediately below this one - its called "Thank you Tim Loughton MP" and scroll down to David Woods first post, you'll see a link to Tim's

rebuttal of Baroness Vere's statement.......alternatively cut and paste this link into your browser, OK?......I hope it works!:)

https://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/c2c405f4- 1a70-474b-9552-55b7a72c37f2

Regards

Pete

BARCS1702

 

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EssexBOF
1 hour ago, pete beadle said:

Hi Brian

Quote "You need to point me in the direction to view that, Pete"........here goes........

If you go to the subject immediately below this one - its called "Thank you Tim Loughton MP" and scroll down to David Woods first post, you'll see a link to Tim's

rebuttal of Baroness Vere's statement.......alternatively cut and paste this link into your browser, OK?......I hope it works!:)

https://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/c2c405f4- 1a70-474b-9552-55b7a72c37f2

Regards

Pete

BARCS1702

 

Hi Pete

The link you provided did not work for some reason, but the othe link you referered to did. Watched it and was impressed by Tim Loughton, it would seem the minister was having none of it. No real explanation as to why other countries can administer a system fo les money & or longer periods. Think something smells in the state of Denmark or is it GB?

BARCS 230

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pete beadle

Hi Stevej

Quote -"When did I refer to a 50m limit? The only 50m limit that I am aware of is for SUSA" unquote

I agree the text you quoted DIDN'T have the 50metre distance mentioned, that's why I was querying it.......

Over the last weekend I met two ISA members who told me that there would have to be a minimum distance separating the flyer and the public in the NEW  regs NOT in the ones you quoted. I haven't had time to check this out but, if it's coming in with the NEW regs it will mean ISA members will not be able to use the Beacon for slope flying because every slope on the Beacon is within 50 metres of a public path

Sorry for the confusion

Regards

Pete

BARCS1702

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wookman

Quoting from table above:

"No carriage of dangerous goods"

Does that include Lipos?

"No closer than 30m horizontally from uninvolved person", "No closer than 50m horizontally from uninvolved person" and "No uninvolved person within the area of flight"

Could this mean the end of any flying on open public access land?

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f3fisa

Maybe we could call the members of public , "spectators". That way they would be involved in the flying of the model aircraft, and hence not come under the regulations.

David.

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Steve J
9 hours ago, pete beadle said:

Over the last weekend I met two ISA members who told me that there would have to be a minimum distance separating the flyer and the public in the NEW  regs NOT in the ones you quoted. I haven't had time to check this out but, if it's coming in with the NEW regs it will mean ISA members will not be able to use the Beacon for slope flying because every slope on the Beacon is within 50 metres of a public path

I found the 50m. It looks like the CAA are gold plating the EU regulation. The wording for A3 in the draft regulation changed a few times, but the final wording used 'endangered'. CAP 1789 is using 'present' and has introduced a 50m limit.

Steve

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pete beadle

Hi Stevej

Thank you for finding this, it is VERY important to ISA members and especially me

Would you be kind enough to provide me with details of this part of the regulation please? How it was worded before. and after? Is it still a draft or has it been integrated/updated into CAP1789 and the EU regulation.......doesn't the CAA have to provide the reasoning behind this change, or can they just go ahead and change it? I know they are a Quango but they would normally be subject to an oversight committee surely?.....and who would have to agree this from the EU side?

I used to work in the EU and find this whole setup odd, perhaps it has all changed now? Unfortunately, it has been over ten years since I worked there.......

Regards

Pete

BARCS1702

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Steve J

There are links to the EU Implementing and Delegated Regulations at the start of CAP 1789. The regulations are EU law. Articles 4, UAS.OPEN.010 and UAS.OPEN.040 in the implementing regulation are relevant. The EU changed the wording for A3 from 'present' to 'endangered' between the draft regulation that was published last October/November and the final version so the CAA's statement that 

Quote

The area for the flight must be selected on the basis that the remote pilot can make a reasonable expectation that there will be no uninvolved people present (and hence could potentially be endangered) within the area where the unmanned aircraft is flying

in their interpretation of UAS.OPEN.040 in CAP 1789 needs to be challenged.

Steve

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Fletch
Quote

 

Face it, they are not going to come out and outright ban model flying, its not the way of these devious politicians. Rather, they will just legislate us out of existence, in short order, milking us for some money as we go!

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stewartg

I’m sure I’m not the first to think of this but has anyone thought of having a meeting with the MP local to say Ivinghoe beacon, whoever he or she is and try to get them to speak up for us at westminster

Alternatively I guess we could all raise the matter at our own MP’s monthly surgery assuring them of our votes come the next election in return for a bit of support and representation in our hour of need.

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pete beadle

Hi Stewartg

I hate to have to say this. but I don't think trying to get your local MP to ally himself publicly to our cause is a good idea.

In the House of Commons there really is no need for getting as many MP's as possible to speak out......the Whips will simply accuse them of rebellion!

On the other hand, if you want to meet your local MP and tell him why you think he should support Tim Loughton, that problem disappears

It's when the MP's are called on to vote for or against the Drone Bill that they have the greatest power........if enough of them vote against the bill it will fail and the job will be done.......:yes::)

Although going straight to social media might work instead........social media seems to be the way forward these days......

Regards

Pete

BARCS1702

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Steve J

@stewartg The more sympathetic MPs we have the better, but everything that MPs have done so far has been played back with a straight bat by the DfT.  

The only thing that I see that might change things is if we end up with a friendly aviation minister after the government reshuffle that will be happening at the end of the month. 

Steve

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f3fisa
2 hours ago, stewartg said:

I’m sure I’m not the first to think of this but has anyone thought of having a meeting with the MP local to say Ivinghoe beacon, whoever he or she is and try to get them to speak up for us at westminster

MP for Ivinghoe Beacon is John Bercow, Speaker of the House of Commons, maybe quite a good ally.

However I doubt if anything will stop this sort of legislation, as it normally goes through on the nod as they call it.

Maybe an amendment can be made about flying locations and the public.

David.

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