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Munch197

It's £9.... 9 of your whole English pounds. The equivalent of 2-3 pints of the landlords finest (location dependant)

 Not the end of the world.

 

I'd rather pay that than the hobby be banned on a permanent basis. 

 

Food for thought.

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pete beadle

Hi Munch 197

In their last bulletin the BMFA said they would not check if renewing members had taken the test or paid the £9.00 registration fee when they renew members BMFA membership

Two forum members on this forum have said they are not rejoining the BMFA, one other forum member said he will not be paying the BMFA's fee as he can get comparable insurance from another source, cheaper........also food for thought, no?.....but I bet SteveJ won't be putting a "like" on this post:yes::)

Regards

Pete

BARCS1702

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Jef Ott
5 hours ago, Mark Evans said:

... Im off to be a nuisance on my mountain bike, wonder how long till I’m taxed to do that. 

Enjoy. 
 

We have that in common.

That same thought had occurred to me too ("a money making and otherwise unnecessary, registration of cyclists will probably be next"), as I spend most of my precious spare time with my immediate family now,  as my wife, our offsprings and I all enjoy riding bicycles.  

Flying was never a problem,  when my Dad was alive as he shared my many flying interests, and we often had weekends away... flying rocket gliders, freeflight models, DLGs, bungee and winch gliders, electric gliders and vintage electric models, ic and slope-soaring.  As we were flying  such a large proportion of the time, had there been a model flying tax imposed upon us, we would have paid it, no problem. 

Whilst my quite demanding, poorly, Mum in Law was alive, my wife had plenty to keep her busy. So there was no problem with me nipping off with Dad for a couple of days here and there. When Dad went for his last flight, three years ago, I lost a lot of the desire to fly. I wrote off a lot of loved models, when I was freshly grieving the loss of my flying partner.  I stopped flying because my head wasn't in the right place for it.

When I made the determined effort to return to flying, several months later, I went to Bartletts Farm. A neighbouring farmer saw me there and told me that the landowner (Jan) had died in the previous week. 

Jan had been a good friend to Dad and I, and I simply couldn't bear to be on that flying field anymore.

My "kids" (in their mid thirties) planned a special bicycle ride with me to celebrate my 60th Birthday this year, and in July in the scorching heat, we did a London to Paris ride. 

Last year we lost my Mum in Law, so Jane was in need of comforting, and as a distraction from the vacuum in her life routine, I encouraged her to ride bicycles with the rest of us. She has done training and charity rides with me in excess of 50 miles now, and we are planning on touring together, when we retire next year.

The ridiculous and unnecessary regulation of model flying hasn't made me want to devote more time to model flying, and I won't be breaking any laws or unnecessarily endangering life by not being insured to fly. I just won't rejoin the BMFA, which unfortunately means I won't be able to rejoin and support my flying clubs, three of which I had not given up, despite hardly having flown for the last two years. 

I simply won't be flying rc again until the dust has settled on all this. If there is a final sensible conclusion after the rethink next summer, then I might attempt to rejoin the clubs and BMFA, and will probably encourage my grandchildren to learn how to fly rc aircraft.

If there is not a sensible conclusion, I will sell my models and teach them to cycle instead.

 

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Andy Symons
1 hour ago, pete beadle said:

Hi Munch 197

In their last bulletin the BMFA said they would not check if renewing members had taken the test or paid the £9.00 registration fee when they renew members BMFA membership

Two forum members on this forum have said they are not rejoining the BMFA, one other forum member said he will not be paying the BMFA's fee as he can get comparable insurance from another source, cheaper........also food for thought, no?.....but I bet SteveJ won't be putting a "like" on this post:yes::)

Regards

Pete

BARCS1702

FPVUK insurance isn't comparable insurance. Its cheaper, hard to argue its better value though.

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pete beadle
1 hour ago, Andy Symons said:

FPVUK insurance isn't comparable insurance. Its cheaper, hard to argue its better value though.

Hi Andy

We are required to have insurance, nothing in that requirement says it has to be BMFA insurance

I spent the last forty years worrying about the potential loss of my no claims bonus on my car, only to find that my maximum bonus was based on the last nine years I'd been driving, and that I could get cover for accidents/damage caused by uninsured drivers. It is a matter of record that we older drivers get involved in fewer accidents and make fewer claims as a result. Didn't stop the government trying to remove my licence on medical grounds when I reached 70 years of age by directing me to a brand new "over 70's" renewal website to try to achieve that result though

As I have said many times before, I'm sorry to say I am convinced that this generation (we over 70's) are the last model builders, and the next generation will be the last model flyers and, .......as as Jef so accurately described..........

2 hours ago, Jef Ott said:

("a money making and otherwise unnecessary, registration) 

  .....is the first of the "three long nails" that begins the end of all model flying in the UK......except for uninsured, illegally flown drones of course:(

Regretfully

Pete

BARCS1702

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Mark Evans

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Mark Evans

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pete beadle

Hi Mark

I really appreciate your reply and will answer what I can

I don't mention drones because I know I (and most other BARCS flyers) don't fly drones. I am sure you've seen all the posts from others, especially SteveJ, moaning at my constant repetition of that fact, but I won't "shut up and get on with it" because, in my opinion, the BMFA went about the job of defending our rights (to fly model aircraft) in the wrong way entirely. IMO if our "negotiators" had establish the ground rules correctly, by confirming that we, in the main, did not fly drones, we could have gained the respect of the CAA and the other organisations we are now negotiating with, in a position of strength ie that we were NOT defending drones and their rights of their owner/flyers to fly, we were agreeing with the premise that drones ARE and were, dangerous threats to all other air traffic but NOT R/C model flyers, who had flown their/our model aircraft in a basically safe and sensible manner in co-operation with the authorities for over 40 years. IMO We had to differentiate between R/C model aircraft and drones at the outset and prove we were allied with the authorities in the recognition of the threat drones were and are.

When Baroness Vere stated at the recent hearing that she "was not interested in the history, only the future" or of the proven safety record of model flyers who the BMFA were representing, we would have had the perfect answer to this, because our spokesman could have said "I'm sorry Baroness but we are not defending rogue drone flyers, we are putting the case for law-abiding model flyers whose safety record is proven over the last 40 plus years" and yes I DO understand that that particular train has departed but it is still RIGHT.

The problem with any charges/insurance/education/rights under law is not one of degree it's a problem of what particular unmanned aerial vehicles you were defending  When you say, quote"For the record I'll most likely give in a pay, but I still don't think it's right, it won't change how I fly and I still think the money will end up in pockets eventually with zero given back to the sport/hobby. It's just wrong." unquote  - You are completely right  and it IS a provably crying shame.....

Regards

Pete

BARCS1702 

 

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Kikapu

Many thanks Andy Symons for taking the time to explain the ramifications of the new legislation.  I think the BMFA has done a wonderful job in limiting the effect it is likely to have on our hobby, after all it wasn't so long ago that we were wondering how we would manage to hold competitions with a height limit of 400ft. 

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PeteMitchell

Good to read some one else with a positive and appreciative attitude, thanking those who do their best for ALL of us

Its so sad to read so many negative posts in amongst the genuine info posts.

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Mark Evans

I can read, it’s all on the BMFA site so I don’t need it explained to me again.

But, I fixed my posts for you guys. 

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Steve J

@Mark Evans Your choices are:

  • obey the law of the land, do a test and give the CAA £9 (directly or indirectly) for a number to put on your 250+g toys;
  • fly illegally;
  • give up flying.

Pick one and move on. I know which one I am going to choose.

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EssexBOF

 

11 hours ago, pete beadle said:

We had to differentiate between R/C model aircraft and drones at the outset and prove we were allied with the authorities in the recognition of the threat drones were and are.

This was always going to be the problem, especially with the powers that be, having little idea as to what the differences are. Once the term UAV was used, it gathered in virtually all types of the hobby, that flew. There was a case that when only Multi Rotors, were the main type of drone being sold/used, that a distinction could be made, but then the flying wing type with a camera in the nose came in, to remove that distinction. Quite why Free Flight models were included is beyond me, but it is easier to have a blanket rule, so the authority's do not have to think, when having to decide which is which, as to what is a threat to placate the general public, when the term drone is used.

I am not keen on another regulation, coupled with being on a data base. Cannot see the point of a test which does not include a test of flying (UAV), just a waste of time. The fee of £9 is small, compared  with say a packet of cigarettes, so that would not put me off. What is feeling more negative is the shrinking band of flyers, that seem to get smaller year by year

It is easy to knock the BMFA, people have been doing it for years. The first club I joined in the md 50's, were anti SMAE as it was then and refused to join, until they wanted to fly on MOD land at contests, which required SMAE Insurance. The past is littered with schemes for model cover, who remembers Guild of Aviation, M A P Insurance etc The governing body has been a constant over all the past close on 100 years.

Finally, I do wonder if the drone issue will slowly decline much as CB radio did some 40 years ago.

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pete beadle
12 hours ago, Steve J said:

@Mark Evans Your choices are:

  • obey the law of the land, do a test and give the CAA £9 (directly or indirectly) for a number to put on your 250+g toys;
  • fly illegally;
  • give up flying.

Pick one and move on. I know which one I am going to choose.

Hi Mark Evans

Can I suggest you ignore SteveJ's incomplete list of options, and instead do what the majority of intelligent and informed flyers are doing, and take a fourth option that SteveJ has oddly, seen fit to forget and not put on his list, to - DO NOTHING, WAIT AND SEE?.

All of SteveJ's posts contain a degree of speculation, what he says, don't forget is only his opinion, that's why he uses "cut and paste" so much, it's not HIS view he's posting, it's always someone else's and, if it's incorrect he always has the get-out that it was not mistake, it was someone else's:yes:

His post (above) is unquestionably the most arrogantly worded post I have ever seen on any forum, but, more importantly, as are most posts made in haste, it's incomplete and incorrect.

So, Mark, please take my advice and ignore and forget SteveJ's post and WAIT AND SEE what the published final version of the amendment(s) say, they'll be what the lawyers will be using, unlike the commentators and speculators in forums

Oh, and one last thing, to me, the fact that you have removed two of your posts proves that what SteveJ is doing is stifling comment and opinion rather than encouraging it......he shouldn't be doing that, IMO that is!

Regards

Pete

BARCS1702

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Mark Evans

Hi Pete,

it wasn’t really down to Steve why I removed my posts, I saw the post about ‘so many negative posts amongst the genuine info ones’.

well, from what I have seen, the genuine info posts have just been copied and pasted from the BMFA site, nothing special to be praised for there, we can all read what has already been posted on the BMFA site and emailed to us. And secondly I’m still waiting for someone to genuinely point out what is positive about the test or how it’s going to suddenly make a difference the second they have took it. You’re all safe before and you will be after, zero difference. Having a car and motorcycle licence doesn’t stop me from speeding, nor does not having one stop people from being on the roads. I still stand by my opinion that once the setup cost is covered that the fee is just a tax. They are clearly not going to stop charging are they once the costs are covered. 
 

I’ll have to pay at some point if I continue flying, especially since I fly quads too and in everyone’s eyes I’m already ruining the hobby for doing so (even though it took more skill to fly those than my dlg) nothing is going to change so there’s no point me talking about it any more or trying to post my opinion just like any of the rest of you. It’s better if I deleted my past posts and quietly slip away.

For the record I have never blamed the BMFA for any of this, I said that I wouldn’t be renewing, and if I don’t think the insurance would cover me and I wouldn’t be taking the test and paying up then obviously there would be no need to renew in my case. We all join to benefit ourselves in some way or another before the ‘but look what they do for the hobby’ posts start. 

Thank you gentlemen, all the best, I’ll leave you all in peace. 

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Andy Symons
49 minutes ago, Mark Evans said:

I’m still waiting for someone to genuinely point out what is positive about the test or how it’s going to suddenly make a difference the second they have took it. You’re all safe before and you will be after, zero difference. Having a car and motorcycle licence doesn’t stop me from speeding, nor does not having one stop people from being on the roads. I still stand by my opinion that once the setup cost is covered that the fee is just a tax. They are clearly not going to stop charging are they once the costs are covered. 

For those of us that are experienced flyers the test makes absolutely no difference at all, for any new flyer that goes along to a club to learn to fly it makes no difference as they will learn much higher "competencies" at the club.

For the individual that has not been involved in flying any small unmanned aircraft previously it may just help make them aware of some of their responsibilities and help make them less "clueless". Perhaps the only positive about the test.

It will make no difference to the Criminal and Careless, even the CAA agree that.  Its all a frustrating, and unnecessary and puts an extra hurdle in front of participation. However the work the BMFA CEO has done has helped massively reduce the size of the hurdle in front of us so it is now one that is very easily cleared and only the tiniest of hurdles.

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Steve J
15 minutes ago, Andy Symons said:

However the work the BMFA CEO has done has helped massively reduce the size of the hurdle in front of us so it is now one that is very easily cleared and only the tiniest of hurdles.

I am not sure how waiving the test for people with 'A's removes a barrier for new flyers. As I read the ANO, remote pilots are required to do the DMARES test (or association equivalent) before touching the sticks

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Big Si

I am just interested to see how much its going to be in a few years time as like all good things it starts off cheap enough but soon the running costs are going to be way over the amount of flyers in the UK as we are disappearing fast so its got to go up as they are not going to say Ok this has made no difference so lets scrap it are they

as I fly all sorts and have a B I don't have to do the test as of yet but that I would think will change as that's a way to charge and justify the cost

I do control line so don't there and I also fly 1m DLG,s which are under the 250g but why that makes a difference I don't know but for now it dose

its like all things theses days its rushed in with out any idea what they are doing and with out talking to US and who ever so its a mess

its like others have said its not going to make a blind bit of difference to the ones that don't give a dam and wont bother doing it and why would they when what they do is not legal in the first place

I just hate its us that in my case have had insurance for over 45 years now get one more hurdle to jump when its got nothing to do with us in the first place

I know a lot of older guys in my power club have said they are not going to bother as half of them haven't got the internet for one thing and at there age they just cant be arsed as they put it

last year we had 86 members this year 60 so if next year we loose 20+ the club will fold end off as the out goings will exceed the income

there are no NEW and young coming into this hobby END OFF   (sad but very true)

at 53 I am one of the younger members at my club so it is heading to the ned of out hobby hence why so many shops are vanishing

its not going to get ay better that's for sure,it never dose and this sure is not going to help the matter 😞

No copy and past was used in this LOL 😉

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Andy Symons
1 hour ago, Steve J said:

I am not sure how waiving the test for people with 'A's removes a barrier for new flyers. As I read the ANO, remote pilots are required to do the DMARES test (or association equivalent) before touching the sticks

Having seen the DMARES test I can honestly say its no "test" at all and therefore no real hurdle. 

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Tony

Big Si has beat me to the post a little on this. I can't see the hobby surviving in it's current form. You go into a shop you fancy wanting to have a go at flying the thing in the window only to be told that you need to register and take a test. Potential customer gone within seconds, another model shop closes another manufacturer folds. The only option for the shop owner is to say hey these quadcopters/drones are exempt so why not have a go at these, quick demo in the shop etc. Then a couple of years later the 250 gram rule goes end of hobby completely.

Sounds like doom and gloom but after being in the consumer business for a lot of years my prediction probably won't be far off the mark. People are very fickle these days and they want it now, not minutes hours or a day later. Even if the shop had a PC set up with the right answers in the shop to register it'll still put people off, then there's a club affiliation, or the BMFA, then insurance etc. 

Whether this is was the aim all along I doubt it but it's conveniently given the powers at be to close our hobby

Tony

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