Gliderchuck Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Do the rules in the Code apply to Models under 250g? I know that the requirements to pass the test and register don't, but I could imagine an argument that the other rules in the Code should be applicable to all Models (under 20kg), e.g. not flying in a FRZ, the 50m from people rule, prohibition on flying over built up areas and >1000 crowds. What's the answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Must admit I've had my head in the sand over all of this. So I guess it's time to sort out. I say this as this very question was on my lips last night as I was looking at three sub 250g models. I would presume a safe code of practise, my words and down to me, but the 50m rule if enforced would basically stop everyone from actually flying owt. You couldn't get anything out of the car boot without breaking the law. I'm still actually confused to what tests, registration, etc etc etc I should actually do, anyone got a definitive list of what to do and where are the correct links and how do I tie it all up? I flying everything except i/c have no A certs and just want this rubbish sorted before I go doolaly. BMFA subs, BMFA year pass, Club subs, Registration subs, this is nearly £200! Probably another club as well as I can't put a bungee or winch on mine. Tony Is there a club in the East/West Midlands that caters for flat field soaring from a bungee or winch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gliderchuck Posted November 18, 2019 Author Share Posted November 18, 2019 Ok, so 90 views and no answers... I've re-re-read the Code and the CAP 1763 guidance. It looks like the FRZ restriction rules apply no matter how small the model aircraft. I wonder how many club sites it impacts?? The rules (in 4) on distance to people, >1000 crowds, built up areas, buildings etc, seem to apply only to drones and models that have a CAMERA, but: "Even if you don’t have a camera, you must still fly safely, so following these points will help you do this." In other words, it looks like the Code will be advisory when it's not mandatory. I'm sure that if a pilot had an incident and the model was under 250g the Code would be used against them. Like the Highway Code. With dog walkers, joggers etc, the 50m rule may be challenging in practice, especially on a lovely day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentPilot Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Can't remember where I read it but I thought FRZs only applied to multi rotors and camera platforms (though not sure if it explicitly said FPV). Flying a fixed wing model LOS without a camera wasn't included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentPilot Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Just read CAP 1763 and it states the FRZ applies to ALL unmanned vehicles. Even small 'Toys'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satinet Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 as I recall the CAA had to issue clarification that it didn't include darts/paper aeroplanes/frisbies and the like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentPilot Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Paper aeroplanes might be a grey area because it does include free flight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentPilot Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Anything flown under treetop height should be exempt. Me flying my Champ in a public park under treetop height isn’t going to affect aviation in the slightest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigT Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 On 18/11/2019 at 15:33, SilentPilot said: Anything flown under treetop height should be exempt. Me flying my Champ in a public park under treetop height isn’t going to affect aviation in the slightest... But it’s not exempt though even if u def 250 grams your still regulated by the ANO first then local Bye Laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigT Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 On 17/11/2019 at 13:07, Tony said: Must admit I've had my head in the sand over all of this. So I guess it's time to sort out. I say this as this very question was on my lips last night as I was looking at three sub 250g models. I would presume a safe code of practise, my words and down to me, but the 50m rule if enforced would basically stop everyone from actually flying owt. You couldn't get anything out of the car boot without breaking the law. I'm still actually confused to what tests, registration, etc etc etc I should actually do, anyone got a definitive list of what to do and where are the correct links and how do I tie it all up? I flying everything except i/c have no A certs and just want this rubbish sorted before I go doolaly. BMFA subs, BMFA year pass, Club subs, Registration subs, this is nearly £200! Probably another club as well as I can't put a bungee or winch on mine. Tony Is there a club in the East/West Midlands that caters for flat field soaring from a bungee or winch? Let’s see if I can condense an answer for you. First off all currently all outdoor models including free flight under 250 grams in RTF condition and without a data recording device are exempt from the operator/pilot registration scheme but not the ANO so are banned from operating inside a FRZ with CAA permission. Next is Operator and Pilot registration. The simplest and least confusing way of complying with the law, especially if you do not have an achievement rating from one of the UK associations, is to just jump on the CAA web site and follow the simple cannot fail testing and registration link, pay £9, get your number, put the number on all your models you own, job done.. remember it’s the operator/pilot that is registered in the UK not the model. https://register-drones.caa.co.uk/individual .. simple enough. Failure to comply with the above and get caught will result in £1000 penalty notice for first offence, possible prison sentence, confiscation of equipment and fine for second offence . There has been much speculation as to how this will be policed, man power restrictions etc. There is already a police cadre called SO 18 that looks after all aviation security and crime investigation in the UK so it is expected it will be them. Worth noting that although the aviation act did not finish process due to the general election, it will go through in the next parliament. Not to be confused with the Drone Act private bill which will not. Also worth noting that only a Police Constable has the power to demand to see your CAA documentation, not a PCSO, Traffic Warden, Council Employee, National Trust employee etc. NEXT in July 2020 a new set of regulations governing the operation of SUA and SUSA also known as UAS (unmanned aerial system) come into force. These are EASA enforced regulation and will apply to the UK wether or not we are still in the EU. The CAA have issued CAP 1789 explaining the bones of the regulation, it’s condensed to 32 pages from the original 300 plus. Best way to read it is go to the chart on the very last page and work back from that. http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP1789 EU UAS Regulations-Guidance.pdf The most restrictive part of this comes into being in 2022 when the requirement for electronic identification of UAS, flight logging and flight registering is enforced for certain activities. The Type Approval of retailed RTF and ARTF UAS, type approval of model airfields etc etc. It will depend on the UK government who have a habit of Gold Plating any EU regulation. The EASA have stated that it would hope that the legitimate model aircraft community will be allowed to continue without further regulation. The basic idea is to free up the airspace between 200 and 500 feet AGL for commercial drone operation. I tried to make this a simple as possible, hope it helped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Big T you're a star and thanks for your patience and much to my shame I will crack on with it today then it's done with. The irony for me at least is that I've just got into Tiny Whoops (Quads) with my nephew and his wife and trying to explain this lot to them is fun to say the least All the best, Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigT Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Your welcome, I’ve been all over this like a cheap suit since 2015 and I still get confused. I have no idea why the BMFA bothered with the delaying tactics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f3fisa Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 My only addition to the above is if you are a BMFA member without any A or B certificates then take the BMFA online test https://rcc.bmfa.uk/rcc as I think it is a lot easier than the CAA one. Also you will not have to pay your £9 until you renew your BMFA subscription, and finally it will only be one payment every year to the BMFA. It will be interesting to see if they achieve the 130,000 registrations that the CAA are expecting. David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 1 hour ago, f3fisa said: My only addition to the above is if you are a BMFA member without any A or B certificates then take the BMFA online test https://rcc.bmfa.uk/rcc as I think it is a lot easier than the CAA one. Also you will not have to pay your £9 until you renew your BMFA subscription, and finally it will only be one payment every year to the BMFA. It will be interesting to see if they achieve the 130,000 registrations that the CAA are expecting. David. Wasn't aware of this one. If this is right then this would more suit me as I can pay everything at once. 130,000? Not a chance in my humble opinion, not even half of it, probably not even a half of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 2 hours ago, f3fisa said: My only addition to the above is if you are a BMFA member without any A or B certificates then take the BMFA online test https://rcc.bmfa.uk/rcc as I think it is a lot easier than the CAA one. The trivial CAA test gives you a flyer ID that is valid for three years. You need to mess around with an exemption if you go the 'A' cert or RCC route and the current exemption is only valid until 30th June. No brainer in my opinion. Other people may disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 32 minutes ago, Tony said: 130,000? Not a chance in my humble opinion, not even half of it, probably not even a half of that. Apparently they had 33,000 registrations in the first ten days . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Peberdy Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 If you join the LMA which insurance is the same as as BMFA and the Scottish ASS the LMA will pay your £9.00 for 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satinet Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Steve J said: Apparently they had 33,000 registrations in the first ten days . Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wookman Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 I would be taking that figure with a mines worth of salt! Any chance of sharing the source of that info Steve? I would love to be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Peberdy Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 I will check with LMA tomorrow and come back to you all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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