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Gliderchuck

Drone & Model Aircraft Code

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BigT
2 hours ago, SilentPilot said:

I guess it's how you read it...

You can be prosecuted for flying without passing the theory test.

Or

You can be prosecuted for not registering.

I agree that the word and would have been better though! 

The reason for the word OR not and is that Operators don’t need to prove competency although they are legally responsible in law for the SUA. Flyers have to prove competency but are only legally responsible for the flight, IE infractions of the ANO etc. So for example Granny buys a 1 kg multi for 13 year old grandson who cannot legally be an operator so an adult has to be the Operator and it’s the operators number that goes on the model. Grandson had to register as a flyer and pass the competency. 

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SilentPilot

I thought that too but it starts off by saying flying not operating 🙄

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BigT
1 minute ago, SilentPilot said:

I thought that too but it starts off by saying flying not operating 🙄

i u detest and the confusion, it was simpler in the original proposal where  both operators and flyers had to do the test 


“If you’ll fly your own drone or model aircraft, you’ll need to register and take the test to get both IDs. Or you can just get the ID you need.“

 

of course this is the important bit that Tesco and the like are failing to pass on

 

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Gliderchuck

Big T looks to be the man on this. I defer to him on everything.

 

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satinet
39 minutes ago, BigT said:

The reason for the word OR not and is that Operators don’t need to prove competency although they are legally responsible in law for the SUA. Flyers have to prove competency but are only legally responsible for the flight, IE infractions of the ANO etc. So for example Granny buys a 1 kg multi for 13 year old grandson who cannot legally be an operator so an adult has to be the Operator and it’s the operators number that goes on the model. Grandson had to register as a flyer and pass the competency. 

So who carries the can if little jonny decides to have a flight over a submarine base?

 

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satinet
39 minutes ago, BigT said:

The reason for the word OR not and is that Operators don’t need to prove competency although they are legally responsible in law for the SUA. Flyers have to prove competency but are only legally responsible for the flight, IE infractions of the ANO etc. So for example Granny buys a 1 kg multi for 13 year old grandson who cannot legally be an operator so an adult has to be the Operator and it’s the operators number that goes on the model. Grandson had to register as a flyer and pass the competency. 

So who carries the can if little jonny decides to have a flight over a submarine base?

 

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Gliderchuck

Assuming it's restricted airspace, I guess lil Jonny, as the age of criminal responsibility in the UK is 10 and you must be 13 to take the test and get a flyer id. His proceedings would be as a youth offender. (Dunno to what extent there's strict liability for any of the offences) Then there's the separate question of whether the adult responsible for the child should have any liability. Granny may not be that person, even if she has the operator id.... Not sure exactly what responsibility the operator has for drones not flown by them. Granny should have bought one under 250g!!

But then, if it was under 250g, how would lil Jonny know about the Drone and Model Aircraft Code and not to fly in the local park that sits in a FRZ or restricted airspace? 

Which harps back to my OP on this thread. Perhaps retailers have to give purchasers info about the Code?

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SilentPilot

I thought it said the operator was responsible for ensuring only those with a flyer ID can fly the drone.

If that's the case then granny should be watching every flight, else she wouldn't know if someone without flyer ID had a go, so if it did end up in restricted airspace then granny could be in trouble too. 

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Gliderchuck

Here's another one. 9 year old Jimmy flys his 200g drone unsafely over people in the park that happens to sit in a FRZ. Who carries the can for that? Jimmy's parents/guardian I suppose.  

But I'm now really puzzled about the retailers and manufacturers.... Don't they need to give information to purchasers? What was the result about them?  If they have no obligations then that seems like a big hole

OR newly retired 60y old Arthur or Agnes, finally gets around to building that 230g balsa RC glider and flys it in their local common, which now sits plumb on the extended runway portion of a FRZ. 

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Andy Symons

The exemptions are in the BMFA news that is about to drop on your doormat in a handy A5 size booklet that can live in your flight box or glove compartment of your car.

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Tony

It's all just another bit of legislation that was rushed through with the rest of the world it seems. I honestly can't envisage a future full of drones rushing around delivering stuff. After all we can't even find a rogue drone over a national airport let alone owt else. Drones in the sky perfect for the would be terrorist, or if you are a certain age it was a plot by the IRA in a Jason King episode but the delivery method was a "Gangster 63". Anyone remember it?

Back on point. I've done the CAA test and the BMFA test, I haven't an A cert., but I'm not quite sure why I did the latter or even why I should have done. Is there a minimum font size when you label all your models up? I'm sure I did see it somewhere but can't remember or I imagined it. I should mention I thought the BMFA test was much easier than the CAA one.

Tony

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SilentPilot

Duplicate 

 

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Steve J
1 hour ago, Gliderchuck said:

Here's another one. 9 year old Jimmy flys his 200g drone unsafely over people in the park that happens to sit in a FRZ. Who carries the can for that? Jimmy's parents/guardian I suppose.  

The FRZ case is easy. Article 94A makes both the operator and remote pilot responsible.

Restricted airspace is not as clear but article 239 says that "It is an offence to contravene, permit the contravention of or fail to comply with any regulations made under this article." so I suppose that both operator and remote pilot are covered.

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SilentPilot
11 minutes ago, Tony said:

Is there a minimum font size when you label all your models up?

Over 3mm :)

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Gliderchuck

At least 3mm high.  Full provision here: 

"

It is against the law to fly a drone or model aircraft that does not show a valid operator ID.

How to label your drone or model aircraft

Your operator ID must be:

visible from the outside, or within a compartment that can easily be accessed without using a tool

clear and in block capitals taller than 3mm

secure and safe from damage

on the main body of the aircraft

You should use a removable label as your operator ID may change when you renew. You’ll need to remove your label if you’re no longer responsible for the drone or model aircraft.

Always use your operator ID, not your flyer ID."

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Steve J
11 minutes ago, Tony said:

It's all just another bit of legislation that was rushed through with the rest of the world it seems.

There are many things that can be said about the new regulations but rushed is not one that I would use. It has taken four years to get to this point and there are a few years to go before it will all be over.

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pete beadle

Hi all

The similarities to Brexit just keep coming don't they?

What are the odds the Lib Dems get enough seats to allow them to combine with Labour and we end up by getting no Brexit and an even more dangerous PM in number 10? Makes all our troubles pale into insignificance dunnit!

That thought will keep me awake for a while tonight:frantics:

Regards

Pete

BARCS1702

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BigT
11 hours ago, Gliderchuck said:

Here's another one. 9 year old Jimmy flys his 200g drone unsafely over people in the park that happens to sit in a FRZ. Who carries the can for that? Jimmy's parents/guardian I suppose.  

But I'm now really puzzled about the retailers and manufacturers.... Don't they need to give information to purchasers? What was the result about them?  If they have no obligations then that seems like a big hole

OR newly retired 60y old Arthur or Agnes, finally gets around to building that 230g balsa RC glider and flys it in their local common, which now sits plumb on the extended runway portion of a FRZ. 

I think the issue with retailers is very valid. Jessops is owned by a Peter Jones (dragons den), who is also the UK I porter and major shareholder of DJI and I think DroneList, makes sure that prospective purchasers are aware of the registration situation. However a quick google will show that Currys, Tesco, PC world etc etc make no mention of it on web sites or point of sale literature. Big mistake not to have written it into the act when they had the chance  

ist

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satinet

Grannie registering as a drone operator just shows what utter drivel the whole thing is. 

You can go out and buy a claw hammer from screw fix for less than a fiver. No one is asking any questions. 

It's a terrible indictment on this country that there are people sleeping on the streets and people struggling to make ends meet, but we've got the time and money to spend on paying people in fancy offices to think up this kind of rubbish to keep themselves in a pointless jobs ad infinitum. 

Anyway it's all been said before.  Time for some flying if the rain stops. 

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SilentPilot

Definitely not gliding weather today. I might nip to my club and fly a power model! 

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