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Flying DLG during the current situation


mikef
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Might try that, luckily as I say , the field I normally use is privately owned. 
 

but would be nice to have a better (read flatter ) field , I can think of one where I might just pop off an email , you never know 😉

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My flying is over till the lock down is eased.  Police stopped me flying at Richmond park yesterday.  I asked him what it was doing wrong and he said as far he could see, nothing, but I might encourage other to come and fly and they might act irresponsibly.  🤔

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I think that if your account is accurate  that policeman should be fired instantly. That’s just ridiculous.

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StraightEdge

To be fair on the rozzer, the whole lockdown situation is SO weird that I think he conflated different things but didn't express himself adequately.

He probably figured that the act of some guy flying a model aeroplane, albeit responsibly and without any obvious contagion risk, might encourage other people to engage in other activities that are potentially risky.

But to distinguish between the two isn't just above his own pay-grade, its above the pay-grade of government ministers!  There's simply NO room for subtlety of thought at the moment.

At least we aren't stopped by the police demanding to know the purpose of our journey every time we drive to do the weekly shop - as a mate of mine who lives in Spain is.

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10 hours ago, MikeDLG said:

I should have filmed it.  

Where is flying on the list of permitted activity ?  if it is arguably fishing, golfing  and lots of other activities  could qualify  and  encourage people to do the same or look for similar loop  holes 

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pete beadle

Hi MikeDLG

Why were you flying in Richmond Park?

Beat policemen are given considerable powers to act on their own initiative when presented with someone possibly/potentially  breaking the law and, personally, I think your PC acted with commendable restraint. After all, he told you why he had stopped you, and left it up to you to make the decision as to whether or not to stop

Why should he be "fired instantly" for doing his job? I don't understand.....

Regards

Pete

BARCS1702

 

 

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45 minutes ago, taggarc said:

Where is flying on the list of permitted activity ?  if it is arguably fishing, golfing  and lots of other activities  could qualify  and  encourage people to do the same or look for similar loop  holes 

Flying a DLG is about the only exercise I get personally and if I'm doing so on my own, in a situation where there are few others about then I'm going to carry on and feel justified in doing so.

I think these new rules have put the police in a difficult situation. The government has a goal of reducing infection rates and have to put some clunky, generalised rules in place to try and achieve that. In my mind the spirit is more important than the letter of the law/rules. For example, there is nothing magical about this 2m rule. The point is to try to avoid getting too close to each other. If we were still measuring distance in feet then we could stand slightly closer other like in the USA where they're telling everyone to stay 6ft apart!

Although its frustrating/annoying, I think in the context of Richmond park, his interpretation of the spirit of the law could be rationalised - loads of people about, the police officer decided that someone seeing a model plane flying is likely to encourage others to get their drones out etc.

4 hours ago, StraightEdge said:

There's simply NO room for subtlety of thought at the moment.

Context matters I suppose.

There might be no room for subtlety of thought in a London park but I'm lucky to have the luxury of that subtlety in the field behind my house in Somerset...

 

4 minutes ago, pete beadle said:

Why were you flying in Richmond Park?

Slightly odd question - not sure if you're trying to imply something there - like an "unnessecary journey".

4 minutes ago, pete beadle said:

Hi MikeDLG

<snip>

Why should he be "fired instantly" for doing his job? I don't understand.....

I agree that seems like an over-reaction, but you seem to be implying that Mike said that - which he didn't.

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The law that the police ought to be following is here, on page 4, para 6 of the document.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350/pdfs/uksi_20200350_en.pdf

Anything the government or the police state should be interpreted consistently with the law.

The law gives several non exclusive examples of reasonable excuses, including exercise.

 

I am also keen to fly but I'm aware of  vigilantes in my area through a local social media app.

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I guess we're lucky that F3K is one of the few forms of RC flying that legitimately is exercise!

Lots of fast turn around practise!

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Richard Swindells

Best quote from a policeman I ever heard, was that his greatest power is the use of "reason and discretion." I suspect most police would happily turn a blind eye about flying DLG on your own. 

Most police are as confused as we are, and that's really not their fault. His boss probably just ordered him to go out and catch some people breaking the covid rules. 

My advise would be to just use common sense. It is very very unlikely that the police would take any action against you, unless you act like an armchair lawyer and start quoting rights at them.

If they ask you to go home, then just go home?

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6 hours ago, Richard Swindells said:

Best quote from a policeman I ever heard, was that his greatest power is the use of "reason and discretion." I suspect most police would happily turn a blind eye about flying DLG on your own. 

Most police are as confused as we are, and that's really not their fault. His boss probably just ordered him to go out and catch some people breaking the covid rules. 

My advise would be to just use common sense. It is very very unlikely that the police would take any action against you, unless you act like an armchair lawyer and start quoting rights at them.

If they ask you to go home, then just go home?

Sounds sensible 

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pete beadle

Hi all

The reason I asked MikeDLG why he flew in Richmond Park was that we are all aware that the police have been tasked with trying to clear parks and other areas used for exercising/socialising and congregating to try to reduce the spread of Covid 19 but.....

11 hours ago, Richard Swindells said:

His boss probably just ordered him to go out and catch some people breaking the covid rules. 

He was showing a lack of knowledge as to how the police are actually tasked

For example, in the London Metropolitan area "his boss" would have been the Mayor of London, and I'm certain that the mayor would NOT be ordering anyone around. What he would have done, in his weekly meeting with the Comissioner, was to list the priorities he would like the Met Police  to have when policing London, the individual police officers  would then have the ability to use "reason and discretion" as to how they go about this, case by case

So, if MikeDLG had been flying in an open space other than a park, it would have been highly unlikely that he would have been approached by a police officer at all   

All I'm saying is, if everyone complies with the rules that we know do reduce the chance of passing on the virus, he/we/they will have nothing whatsoever to fear from our police force, OK?:yes:

Regards

Pete

BARCS1702

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Richmond park has a designated 'model flying area'.  It's been in regular use for about 60 years to my knowledge.

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pete beadle

Hi MikeF

I'm sorry but that designation is irrelevant to the police and/or the government

Just because the park is a recognised flying site it doesn't make it exempt from the requirements relating to containment of this virus

The government is asking you  NOT to increase your chances of getting or passing on the virus by staying indoors, not making unnecessary journeys, keeping a separation of at least 2 metres between yourself and others and avoiding places such as parks

Complying with these requirements WILL reduce the chance of catching the virus and/or passing it on, why are you saying that your need to use Richmond Park, just because it is an approved flying site, makes all of these safety requirements irrelevant? It makes no sense

Regards

Pete

BARCS1702

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The policeman himself seems to have accepted that MikeF was not doing anything wrong, and the reason for asking him to stop seems to have been to stop other people coming to join him. That would only become wrong under the current regulations when a group of more than two formed. So MikeF (as I understand it from his account) was stopped from doing something legal on the grounds that he might encourage others to do the same legal thing!
I am happy enough to pay police to enforce the law, but this seems to me to be the police taking the law into their own hands. Admittedly, not quite Judge Dredd, but the thin end of a nasty wedge nonetheless.

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SilentPilot

The part about Richmond Park having a designated model flying area might actually be the reason people get moved on...

Parks, as in grased areas, are open for people to exercise by walking or jogging etc.

Parts of parks that encourage grouping of people, so that's actual activity areas (swings and slides and the like), are banned so as to not contradict social distancing. 

I guess if the police deem an area for models constitutes an area that encourages gathering or grouping then that can be classed as off limits. 

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The point is that a  solo dlg flyer carries very little risk of covid transmission. I live near Finsbury Park where there are several groups of teenagers congregating all the time, sharing spliffs non stop, etc.

Flying a DLG I think is a reasonable excuse to be outside if it is a. Part of ones hobby/lifestyle and b. Carries little risk.

I understand the 'reason and discretion' point, but sadly several policeman lack the former which makes the latter arbitrary.

It is much worse going to buy a pint of milk in a shop than flying a dlg solo. 

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