tonym Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 Will this new(?) rule affect our glider competitions and flying in general? 6. Keep at least 150m away from residential, recreational, commercial and industrial sites 150m is the minimum distance. Be prepared to increase the distance if you need to do that to fly safely. https://register-drones.caa.co.uk/drone-code/where-you-can-fly Point 4. mentions a 'cylinder' as a guide to the 50m distance when over-flying people, effectively a 100m diameter area up to 120m (400'). We'd be looking at a 300m+ diameter cylinder of airspace we should not fly in over buildings. A quick look using Google Maps shows Buckminster is the least affected site we fly competitions on - will the BMFA allow us to overfly the offices and other buildings? https://register-drones.caa.co.uk/drone-code/updates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssexBOF Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 Well, if this sort of thing happens?????? Derbyshire Constabulary · A drone pilot who nearly caused a serious accident at a memorial flight in Buxton has pleaded guilty to endangering an aircraft. The incident happened at the Buxton Carnival in July 2022, during a fly-past by the RAF’s Battle of Britain Memorial Flight Hurricane. At the time, the fly-past had been protected by a short-term airspace restriction which banned all other flying in the area, including drones. Images captured on the day showed the drone flying dangerously close to the wing of the Hurricane, which was being watched by an estimated 20,000 people. Officers worked to identify the drone operator, a 49-year-old man from Buxton, and his drone was seized as part of their investigation. Analysis showed it was flying over Buxton at the time of the fly-past. Mark Bagguley, of Chatsworth Road, Fairfield, was arrested and subsequently charged with endangering an aircraft and operating an aircraft out of the visual line of sight. He pleaded guilty to both charges before magistrates at Chesterfield Justice Centre today (Monday 9 January) and is set to appear again in February for sentencing. Following the case today the Civil Aviation Authority and police are reminding drone operators of the need to fly safely and legally. Pc Matt Moore, Flight Safety Manager for the Derbyshire Constabulary drone team said: “The way the pilot flew his drone was unsafe, illegal and totally unacceptable. “ “Anyone using a drone must follow the rules to make sure they fly safely. As a police drone unit, we know the benefits drones can bring to society but people using a drone in this way not only threaten the safety of aircraft and the public they also damage the future use of drones. “This is for the safety of not only yourself but others around.” Drones must be flown safely and legally, within the limits of the operating category they are flying in. This includes operator registration, pilot competency and maintaining separation distances from members of the public, built up areas and manned aviation. All drone operators are responsible for ensuring the drone is being flown safely and within the law at all times. Those found to be committing offences using drones will be investigated and could face prosecution. More information can be found at https://orlo.uk/C2cOi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonym Posted January 22, 2023 Author Share Posted January 22, 2023 Link to a CAA report of the divot multi-rotor drone flyer - https://www.caa.co.uk/news/serious-drone-prosecution-highlights-need-for-drone-users-to-understand-and-follow-safety-rules/ No mention of the 150m distance from buildings in the latest BMFA 'dispensation document' (section 3.11) - https://rcc.bmfa.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/The-Society-of-Model-Aeronautical-Engineers-Ltd-UAS7068-Article-16-Authorisation-Issue-5-22122022.pdf - though we can be sure which document would take precedence in any legal proceedings. It appears that the updated CAP722 documents contain some contradictions in them, this YouTube video explains what has been found so far - https://youtu.be/22yt-h9uyHs About 2 minutes in and at around 3:30 are the contradictions talked about. These guys are multi-rotor fliers, they may not have looked deeper than the rules that affect them, if the CAA has screwed up in the sections they’ve looked at, do we have confidence they’ve not screwed up in other areas that perhaps affect our model gliders, or any model plane? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Elam Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 My understanding, despite the diagram on the website, is that it is a bubble or sphere with a radius of 50m from the model, not a cylinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 19 hours ago, tonym said: Will this new(?) rule affect our glider competitions and flying in general? It's not new. The open category 150m from congested areas has been around for a long time. If you had done the CAA test at the end of 2019 you would know about it. Anyway, you don't do your competitions in the open category, you do them in the specific under the BMFA's article 16 authorisation (or at least you should be doing so). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter G Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 There was a drone in the Southampton football stadium at the weekend during their premier league game with Aston Villa. The ref stopped the game and took the players off. The regulations are apparently not preventing 'rogue operators'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wookman Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 3 hours ago, Peter G said: The regulations are apparently not preventing 'rogue operators'. I'm not sure they are designed to that. If someone is determined, through ignorance of / disregard for the rules, to break the law then they will. The regulations are there to provide a means of prosecuting such people. Nobody with a grain of sense would fly a drone in such an environment. Would they? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssexBOF Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 1 hour ago, wookman said: I'm not sure they are designed to that. If someone is determined, through ignorance of / disregard for the rules, to break the law then they will. The regulations are there to provide a means of prosecuting such people. Nobody with a grain of sense would fly a drone in such an environment. Would they? They never will. We have the tightest gun laws, but people still manage to get hold of them & kill people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc RC pilot Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 It seems that one has to now take out a separate insurance for drones at the BMFA site. I'm sure last year this was included with the standard aeroplane insurance (?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Whitehead Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 4 hours ago, Marc RC pilot said: It seems that one has to now take out a separate insurance for drones at the BMFA site. I'm sure last year this was included with the standard aeroplane insurance (?). Where does it say that? My "Confirmation of Membership" tells me I am covered for all lawful model flying (and that includes drones). See attached extract. Dick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonym Posted January 24, 2023 Author Share Posted January 24, 2023 There's a little topic dridt, perhaps we need a thread elsewhere for discussions od duckwits and their drone dlying idiocy - What's wrong with my 'f' key? ddddddffffff - that's fixed it. On 22/01/2023 at 22:20, Dave Elam said: My understanding, despite the diagram on the website, is that it is a bubble or sphere with a radius of 50m from the model, not a cylinder. I thought that too Dave, but seeing the text on the CAA's own website - 'This creates a no fly zone around people that goes all the way up to the legal height limit. It can help to think of this no fly zone as a cylinder.' - I think we can say the 'bubble theory' is perhaps incorrect? On 23/01/2023 at 07:27, Steve J said: It's not new. The open category 150m from congested areas has been around for a long time. If you had done the CAA test at the end of 2019 you would know about it. Anyway, you don't do your competitions in the open category, you do them in the specific under the BMFA's article 16 authorisation (or at least you should be doing so). Steve, I can only find mention of the 150m parallel distance in the latest CAA drone update (Dec 2022). The BMFA Article 16 PDF makes no mention of 150m distance from anything at all. The CAA update may be that now instead of 'congested areas' it is now any building, even a single shed in a field? I suppose I must have done the box ticking test 3 years ago, a pass rate of 75% isn't a difficult target. Q33 - Theo has model aircraft that’s over 5kg. What horizontal distance must he be from a residential, recreational, commercial or industrial area when he flies? Answer – 150m Also, in the BMFA Article 16 PDF there is no mention of competition flying. Provisions for Model Flying Displays are covered but there is no mention of organised competitions. Are our competitions 'normal' 'sport' flying with 'added excitement'? Albeit with an advertised date and entry fee. I'm sure they don't fit in as a Model Flying Display. The nearest word to competition in Article 16 is competitors when visiting the UK. Even the CAA are in a muddle with the drone rules so what hope do we have of knowing what the rules are we should be working to. Deity forbid - but I'd rather not test any incident/infringement in court, it's said having the CAA as your prosecutor is virtually a slam dunk in favour of them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 29 minutes ago, tonym said: I can only find mention of the 150m parallel distance in the latest CAA drone update (Dec 2022). It comes from EU regulation 2019/947. It applies to subcategory A3. It was discussed on here in '19. 29 minutes ago, tonym said: The BMFA Article 16 PDF makes no mention of 150m distance from anything at all. That would be because if you are flying under the BMFA's article 16 authorisation, you are not flying in subcategory A3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc RC pilot Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 3 hours ago, Dick Whitehead said: Where does it say that? My "Confirmation of Membership" tells me I am covered for all lawful model flying (and that includes drones). See attached extract. Dick Hi Dick Perhaps I'm confused.com Page I found was this one at BMFA when I was renewing: https://bmfa.org/join-us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonym Posted January 24, 2023 Author Share Posted January 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Steve J said: It comes from EU regulation 2019/947. It applies to subcategory A3. It was discussed on here in '19. That would be because if you are flying under the BMFA's article 16 authorisation, you are not flying in subcategory A3. Is this the thread Steve? I'm with Marc - confused.com So what rules do we follow for model gliders between 1kg and 5kg. The 50m ones around people are obvious, what are the parallel and height distances over buildings, groups of buildings, or any other congested area/sites? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil.Taylor Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 February BMFA news - just landed - covers this - in two articles Phil. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 10 minutes ago, tonym said: So what rules do we follow for model gliders between 1kg and 5kg. If you are a BMFA member, you follow the BMFA's Article 16 authorisation unless you have a burning desire to fly under the subcategory A3 rules. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Whitehead Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 51 minutes ago, Marc RC pilot said: Hi Dick Perhaps I'm confused.com Page I found was this one at BMFA when I was renewing: https://bmfa.org/join-us I think that page confirms what I said. The BMFA / BDF is effectively two faces of the same organisation, so whichever way you join you get the same insurance to cover all your flying. Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Whitehead Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 50 minutes ago, tonym said: ........... I'm with Marc - confused.com So what rules do we follow for model gliders between 1kg and 5kg. The 50m ones around people are obvious, what are the parallel and height distances over buildings, groups of buildings, or any other congested area/sites? You may be a little behind the times. If you are a BMFA member, I suggest you read the latest issue of the BMFA's Article 16 Authorisation I can't find any reference to 5Kg in it, and all the references to1Kg seems to refer to control line models, so see sections 3.7 for locations (e.g built-up areas), 3.9 for operating heights, and 3.11 for separation distances. Dick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Elam Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 Note that in the BMFA News article there is no mention of "horizontal distance". This confirms what I was told during my own discussion with the BMFA and that the distances from the model are of the bubble variety and not cylindrical. Not sure why the CAA seem to think the opposite though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 20 minutes ago, Dave Elam said: Not sure why the CAA seem to think the opposite though? Article 16 authorisation. CAP 722 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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