Steve J Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 DMFV "hands off my hobby" campaign in Germany - http://www.pro-modellflug.de/ Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oipigface Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 I have received an email from Andreas Fricke (who is a French F3F participant). He has been asked to circulate details of a petition to the German Trade Minister, protesting at a proposal to limit all model flying to 100m. They need 120,000 signatures before anyone will take any notice, and so far they have only 22% of that. I don't know who Robby, Dominique or Gerard are, but the petition site itself looks genuine. The message is reproduced in its original French below. Here's my translation into English: "I am asking all my French modelling friends to help us in our battle against a new proposed law in Germany, which would limit all model flying to under 100m. Especially for GPS competition, this would be intolerable, and amount to a complete ban on flying in strong thermals. But equally with smaller gliders and planes, this height limitation would represent an effective halt to our hobby. This has upset us badly, and may well soon be upsetting you as well. The largest aeromodelling organisation in Germany (DMFV) has organised an online petition addressed to Minister Dobrindt, objecting to the proposed law (which could have repercussions throughout Europe). On behalf of DMFV, and myself, I would ask you, my dear friends, to support us in avoiding the worst. Sign the petition at http://www.pro-modellflug.de/petition/, entering your surname, given name, home and email addresses (you can request anonymity if you like), and finally submit the petition. We need at least 120,000 signatures! Help us avoid the passage of this law by signing. Ask those around you to do the same, friends, parents, grandparents and all those who are engaged in any way with aeromodelling, a hobby that belongs to us, and should remain ours." I've logged on and signed (even though I am not French!). If seems to me the least one can do to protest at this unthinking approach to regulation. John Treble Here's the original email Von: Bely Dominique [mailto:vdp63@free.fr] Gesendet: mercredi 6 avril 2016 08:27 An: vdp63@free.fr Betreff: pétition Au secours ! 120 000 signatures SVP pour sauver notre loisir ! Bonsoir Gérard, T`as bien lu...Au secours! Je demande à tous mes amis modélistes français de nous soutenir dans notre lutte contre un nouveau projet de loi en Allemagne, interdisant les vols au-dessus de 100m avec nos modèles réduits. Surtout pour nos GPR, situation intolérable et équivalente à une interdiction ou une non pratique des vols en grandes plumes. Mais également avec un petit avion/planeur, cette limitation en hauteur représenterait dans la plupart des cas un arrêt définitif de notre loisir. Grandes émotions chez nous, et peut-être bientôt également chez vous. La fédération d'aéromodélisme la plus grande en Allemagne, le DMFV organise actuellement une pétition par voie Internet contre ce projet de loi du ministre Dobrindt (une loi qui pourrait avoir des répercussions dans toute l'Europe). De la part des représentants du DMFV et par moi même, je vous demande sincèrement mes chers amis de nous soutenir et ainsi de nous aider à éviter le pire. Participer à la pétition : http://www.pro-modellflug.de/petition/ en inscrivant votre prénom, nom, résidence, et adresse E-mail (vous pouvez rester anonyme) et finalement souscrire à la pétition. Il nous faut au moins 120.000 signatures ! Aidez nous à éviter cette loi avec vos signatures. Demandez à tout le monde autour de vous à faire de même, les amis, les parents, les grands-parents et tous les fidéles et intéressés par l'aéromodélisme, un loisir, qui est à nous et qui doit rester à nous. Merci, je vous emmbrasse tous Robby 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jef Ott Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36067591 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexS Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 "Steve Landells, from the British Airline Pilots Association (Balpa), said it had been "only a matter of time before we had a drone strike". He called for greater enforcement of existing rules." A bit of common sense at last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarrans Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 I fear that "common sense" is highly likely to evaporate under a mindless media campaign to demonise all forms of radio control flying and that the Gov and the CAA will be forced to act "to save the children". The (small) hope i cling to is that the CAA will continue to differentiate between actual drones and the models we know and love but it doesnt seem to worked anywhere else so im not holding my breath. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon_t Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 55 minutes ago, swarrans said: I fear that "common sense" is highly likely to evaporate under a mindless media campaign to demonise all forms of radio control flying and that the Gov and the CAA will be forced to act "to save the children". The (small) hope i cling to is that the CAA will continue to differentiate between actual drones and the models we know and love but it doesnt seem to worked anywhere else so im not holding my breath. Simon Very bad if true, however assuming it was even a drone - it hit the glass fibre radome and caused no damage? Seems unlikely unless it was a tiny polystyrene drone. It was very Thermic yesterday, and it is as likely to have been a bit of harmless garbage pulled up in a thermal as a drone. Would be good to see some pictures of the aircraft nose to see any witness' marks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankS Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Why aren't Balpa calling for dashcams in the aircraft cockpit so they can record these, or even pilot simulator training in spotting a drone. If you read the news articles it says the the pilot believed it to be a drone, or course the headlines and tabloid press have now taken this to be a confirmed fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarrans Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 13 minutes ago, FrankS said: or course the headlines and tabloid press have now taken this to be a confirmed fact. That's what I mean about the mindless media frenzy - I've been monitoring the RC Groups threads on this subject (I don't know why I do it because it is just so depressing!) and their media seems to be going mad over "confirmed" sightings of drones at 4,000 feet whizzing past airliners (etc). I think most of us would realise that it would be nigh on impossible to see something so small at speed and be sure it was a drone, but it makes better news. So in the US you have these potentially draconian rules/laws being discussed on a Federal level and then individual States trying to implement their own even worse ones! I hope we are more sensible, but the power of the media to influence people seems unstoppable even with total lies/rubbish At the risk of sounding a complete crack-pot I will stop at this point and go and ride a motorbike (before they ban them - argh I've done it again!) Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 16 minutes ago, pete beadle said: We R/C model pilots DO NOT FLY DRONES we fly model aircraft that are controlled by radios that have to be in use continuously when we are flying these models. Actually, we do. A drone is an unmanned aircraft. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 CAA statement on the Heathrow incident - http://www.caa.co.uk/News/Statement-on-Heathrow-drone-incident/ "The CAA is aware of a possible incident with a drone at Heathrow on Sunday 17 April which is subject to investigation by the Metropolitan Police. Safety is our first priority. Anyone operating a drone must do so responsibly and observe all relevant rules and regulations. The rules for flying drones are designed to keep all airspace users safe. It is totally unacceptable to fly drones close to airports and anyone flouting the rules can face severe penalties including imprisonment." Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Elam Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 It's probably worth looking at this again. especially as there have been quite a few comments and replies added at the bottom since it was last posted on here http://nats.aero/blog/2015/12/did-you-get-a-drone-for-christmas/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterT Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Quote Actually, we do. A drone is an unmanned aircraft. Surely if that's the case, we should be striving to do as Pete Beadle suggests, that is differentiating between the models we fly (and have flown safely for decades), and those that fly autonomously out of visual range - the latter are causing the problems we are seeing now, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarrans Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 They tried to make that distinction in the US (and failed) and the draft proposals in Germany (and I believe all of EU) lump us all in to the same category. What Peter and Pete are saying is logical and correct of course, but I don't think we'll win the argument regretably Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon_t Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 If you want to see the views of flight crew (and lots of non-professional posters, like any forum): http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/577691-drone-strike.html Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 1 hour ago, pete beadle said: we do not fly aircraft included in the definition of drones...... EASA's 'Technical Opinion - Operation of unmanned aircraft' uses "drone" as a synonym for "unmanned aircraft" and defines an"unmanned aircraft" as "any aircraft operated or designed to be operated without a pilot on board". You may prefer different definitions, I try to use the same definitions as people writing the rules. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Elam Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Agree Steve. I think, whether we like it or not we are lumped into the term drone. The PPRuNe forum makes interesting (and worrying) reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Richard Burden MP (Labour, shadow transport minister) quoted in the Guardian - "Yesterday’s drone collision with a plane sadly comes as no surprise and we should be thankful that the pilot was able to land the plane safely. For months we have seen a rising number of near misses and Labour has consistently urged the government to wake up to the problem. We know drones pose a very real threat to public safety and we should learn the lessons from places like the US which have been quick to introduce a registration process. We need action but we are still yet to see even a consultation on the options. This now must happen as soon as possible." https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/apr/18/drones-government-labour-ba-rules-drones-heathrow-incident Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterT Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Quote Richard Burden MP (Labour, shadow transport minister) quoted in the Guardian Frankly I wouldn't expect anything better from a politician. Steve, are you suggesting that we just sit back and do nothing? Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 Richard Burden MP has been stirring the pot on this for a while now. 1901 wrote to him, the reply is on page 11 of this topic. 1 hour ago, PeterT said: are you suggesting that we just sit back and do nothing? I wrote to my MP on this subject before Christmas. The reply that I got from the DfT is on page 10 of this topic. Steve 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 Quite a few parliamentary written questions yesterday. Mostly the shadow transport minister asking questions that he knows the answers to - http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-questions-answers/?page=1&max=20&questiontype=AllQuestions&house=commons%2clords&dept=27&keywords=drone Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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