FxRES May 2023 2m F3L/F5L Monthly Duration Challenge

[martynk]

Latest table -  thanks all. Nice to see a couple of newcomers joining in as well.

     

[andyharrold]

F5RES

X RES E

18 MAY 23

13MINS 50SECS

 

[AnthonyB]

F5RES / model cRESt / time 1:01:57 / date 18/5/23.

Full flight.......

Glide part..........

 

This started yesterday when I went to the local club with 4 fully charged batteries. It is down near the river so it should have been less windy. It's the lowest point. It was too windy.

This morning I used up the batteries for my lightest cREst. Stopped at lunch time because the wind had come up (like it does).

After lunch went with the heavier cRESt. I spent the morning chasing birds – Swallows (yes finally back), Kestrels, Buzzards and Gulls, there were even Crows in the thermals with the gulls. The swallows are the most fun to follow.

This never crossed my mind, well not until after 30mins and I was going up quite well. There was an 8mph breeze, so you could not follow thermals for too long, or gain that much height.

Then stay afloat trying to find something else.

Perhaps near the end, trying to hit the hour I tried too hard, it certainly would not go up (much), but got it well out of the field I was in. Final voltage was 7.2v – so no worries there.

[martynk]

Cracking flight Anthony. Updated table..

 

     

[Richard Newsham]

PuRES V2 : F3L : 19/5/23 :  22m3s  

Finished work and straight up to Harden Moor for 4pm. Wind roughly 7mph at its strongest NE.

New bungee has arrived from China earlier than planned.  This is it's second outing. Blimley what a difference 6mm by 4mm tube is compared to what I was using.  When it's stretched is goes very thin.  Does the job. 

I actually waited for a while to launch into what I thought might have been thermal material but it wasn't until the 5th or so flight that I had a bit of fun.

I was blown down wind a bit and did chicken out.  It was still going up. I came back a little and latched into another thermal where again I bailed out due to going down wind.  I managed to get back okay so I may push on upwards next time.........

I was becoming a bit giddy as the time was going on and thought I might beat my last time but it wasn't to be.

Richard

[Hydeflyer]

Claiming 7min 03 seconds. Seal Road Bramhall today F5L Eli

Got the brake fixed so no more windmilling, but still only a slight improvement. Stewart W will be pleased... I'm still bottom of the league!

[Richard Newsham]

PuRES V2 : F3L : 21/5/23 :  17m10s 

Harden Moor - roughly 7mph NE

Flight #12 Oh it could have been great but sadly the receiver low voltage signal started chirping so spoiler out and landed. I had just got back upwind and found another thermal as well.

Flight #7 I pushed the boundaries to see how far up and down wind I dare go.  Last time I chickened out but got back okay.  It came back this time too.  

The trouble with this wind direction is the sun is staring right at you when working the thermal up through 200m then the thermal seems large enough to allow me to deviate a little from where I was circling, to get out of the way of the sun. 

What a grand day.

Question:- What classifies as a boomer of a thermal?  Anything over 1m/s???

Richard

 

Edited May 21, 2023 by Richard Newsham
added a question

[martynk]

Updated table. TBH, I was expecting a flood of entries after the halcyon weather on Sunday..

 

     

[Paul Wellacott]

4 hours ago, martynk said:

Updated table. TBH, I was expecting a flood of entries after the halcyon weather on Sunday..

 

     

The Army wanted Dishforth back, not really got anywhere else to fly lightly covered 2m models.

hopefully at Radioglide on Monday 

[AnthonyB]

13 hours ago, martynk said:

Updated table. TBH, I was expecting a flood of entries after the halcyon w    

Yes, really great weather and I got a whole lot of gardening etc etc etc done.

As the thermals developed and the dew came off the grass, the wind came up. With (what we had) a 10mph breeze (4.5m/sec) you would be 250m down wind in less than a minute. That would work for a 6min comp round (starting 200m up wind) but not a 1 hour flight !

[Richard Newsham]

PuRES V2 : F3L : 26/5/23 :  58m55s  Fligh#11

What a great afternoon. Two cracking flights. Glad I changed my battery after flight#10.

Harden Moor - Wind SW 1mph ish Time 3:30pm to 5:50pm.

Flight #10

I thought that was good at 42m9s

Flight #11

I thought I was in the thermal.  Well I was but not really in it until I circled with a right big bird ( I guess a buzzard or perhaps a Golden Eagle).  Then, the PuRES went up and up and up!

I deployed the spoiler. It wasn't a nice experience to be fair. Oh it came down but at a frantic rate and I hate to say it, uncontrolled in the end for a few seconds that seemed a bit longer.  I have trimmed the spoiler out but for landing only.  Seems to work fine then.  That last few meters and down at your feet, done. Well up at 600 and odd meters I needed to come down as it was just going further up.  So I opened the spoiler fully expecting a gentle timely return to earth but nooooooo.  Swearing was just wasted effort.  I needed to concentrate on what the hell was going on.  Were the wing tips still attached? Why has it gone vertical (down ways) or something like that? Hard to tell. Spoiler in and elevator up a little and wait until it settles down from whatever it decided to do. Calm restored with shaking fingers. The next thermal I tried the spoiler again, but knowing what had gone before, with an investigatory angle of approach.  Still really no idea apart what was happening but I was ever present on the up elevator and only opening the spoiler in 1 second ish dabs and not fully opening the spoiler.  It wasn't as uncontrolled but the damn thing kept going up anyway when the spoiler was put back in.  At that moment in time I didn't quite appreciate a strong thermal. The next thermal I was positioned lower and further away so a better angle to see the attitude of the glider. I opened the spoiler fully and applied up elevator to control it.  It came down more controlled at least.  At that point, 37 mins in and straight after another long flight, I was getting a bit tired and with staring at a spot and keeping my concentration at 110% I'd had enough. The last thermal at 45mins I had decided to not to go high and I thought I had chance of breaking the 1 hour barrier so continued.  The 1 hour barrier wasn't to be.  Cracking afternoon though.

The Overlander Eneloop Nimh 800mA AAA just lasted for flight #11.  It was fully charged.  The MKS DS6100 servos are sucking the life out of it.  I need to look at different servos. 100mAh no movement with receiver and Altis Nano.  ~270mAh with servo moving.  I take the voltage down to 4.6V before the transmitter bleeps at me.  Spare time allotted in case I'm high up. 

Richard

 

[AnthonyB]

15 hours ago, Richard Newsham said:

Pay s  The 1 hour barrier wasn't to be.  Cracking afternoon though.

The Overlander Eneloop Nimh 800mA AAA just lasted for flight #11.  It was fully charged.  The MKS DS6100 servos are sucking the life out of it.  I need to look at different servos. 100mAh no movement with receiver and Altis Nano.  ~270mAh with servo moving.  I take the voltage down to 4.6V before the transmitter bleeps at me.  Spare time allotted in case I'm high up. 

Richard

 

Yes I know I am wasting bandwidth.

Yes I know I am doing this to death.

I do 1 or 2 or 4 launches to 60m and then fly without a problem, all on a 450-2s. A long way from an 800 battery that is giving up after less than an hour...... In a pure glider (no motor).

If I switch ANY of my models on (with motor live) it tales 30mA........ Yes all of them.

Then I decided to give it all some pain and see how high I could get it.

I used 3 x 3.6kg torque servos (recovered from a model that would not sell). I set them all doing fast from one end to the other. I do this to all servos before use, to soak test them.

I think I got to about 160mAh but only momentarily, before dropping right down.

I then put my thumb against one, to load it up. It hurt I was pressing so hard – but remember these are 3.6kg servos. I could have put a model dangling from each servo and lifted them up and down easily.

I got it up to 250mah, but it hurt.

I can twiddle the sticks (with the normal tiny servos) and it gets (momentarily) to 100mah.

The DS6100 servos (I like) are a 3.3kg.... slightly less.

I use friction free living hinges and (all but) friction free carbon rod inside 1 inch lengths of PTFE guides. So just twiddling the sticks on the bench does little.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/fl1sEsfcy_o

 

Irony - Using telemetry to monitor Rx voltage, for “safety” and that very same thing causing the model to crash !

[martynk]

Are you using Digital or Analogue servos? Richard is using Digital which have a high quiescent current.

[AnthonyB]

2 hours ago, martynk said:

Are you using Digital or Analogue servos? Richard is using Digital which have a high quiescent current.

I presume you meant me.

The 3 models I have been using lately are fitted with BlueBird BMS-101HV (digital).

The video I did (above) was with BlueArrow D0474HT  ((HV) .... Again digital.

But it would seem all my servos seem to be called Digital.

[AnthonyB]

Martyn, can I clarify what I am doing, why and the results.

Rx is Mpx's lightest and simplest (and cheapest). It's called a “park flyer” and is meant for – well the clue is in the name. These are range tested to 50m, but as you go up the list they get better and better. The good Rx are tested to 100m.

It is clear, from the start that these are very second rate. I must have been using them for over 10 years and never ever had a range problem or ever any interference. Over the last 2 or 3 years I have got braver and braver and still no problems – so I will use them – happily.

So, this is totally basic – ONE aerial and one Rx circuit. As you go up the range they get 2 aerials and 2 Rx circuits and they MUST need more power.

Then on to the “good” ones. Full 2 aerials, 2 full Rx circuits, a whole lot of telemetry and all the “computer” bits that go with it and the transmitting. It certainly will use more juice.

The 2 / 4 servos. These are BlueBird BMS-101HV.

Chosen because they are small and light. The very first 4 got a really good soak testing for a couple of hours. I could not find any way to fault them – so I used them. Not that cheap, but none have failed and they do their job – end of.

They are ALWAYS set up to use 100% travel at max required movement. Rate switches (here) are for the very lazy.

Battery – Overlander 450-2S (35C) and or Turnigy Nanotech 500-2S (No C rating on) but they both perform / weigh the same on discharge tests, and in the air.

Understand that this is the best chemistry (as opposed to NiCad or NiMh) – It has by far the best energy density. Now, with the HV electronics I use, they can work without any voltage change.

ESC – cheap and cheerful Bl-Heli-S. Incredibly small and light and reliable and standard Quad. I prefer them with few leads on and then make to fit where they go. I do use 20 or 25A where I don't actually go over 10A. Once the motor run is over, it is switched off at the Tx, so there is no chance of knocking it back on. Though if I were stupid, I can use the motor to get back.

Absolutely NO bec / sbec – Over the years I have had lots of problems and irritations – I really dislike them !

If my esc failed, I cannot (realistically) see it would crash the model – I would just have no motor. In reality, I have NEVER had one fail.

Motors – Good magnets, lots of copper and no vibration when running. Sorry but I don't believe in pixies, fairy Godmothers or perpetual motion. For low power I allow myself to use a 23mm motor. For more power I prefer a 28mm motor. I would also want to see the manufacturers spec and recommendations. No data = No using.

I can't bring myself to overdrive a motor – (wow) I have NEVER had a motor blow.

OK – I stuffed 2kw into a Neu at overvoltage and threw the magnets – 65,000rpm is a bit much.

It takes less power to pull a 320g model to height, than it does a 500g one.

So, I use less power to run / do everything than most. It is not complicated. If you want to add all the bells and whistles, rocket climbs etc etc – great – pay the price.

Then when I want to fly faster, it needs more weight, so larger battery, larger motor, larger esc, larger carbon spars and thicker covering.

 

[martynk]

Apologies, yes, I did mean you Anthony.. Just knackered after 3 days of (for me) very heavy exertion and my body is screaming for reprieve.

I am just puzzled why there is such a disparity with the current consumption. A digital servos almost never settles, it hunts around the chosen position, including neutral, hunting either side so current consumption is much higher than an analogue servo that gets its positional feedback from a pot that often loses precision with age. I don't use sperate BECs either, I select my servos to match the battery output for F3 (usually 1s) or the ESC BEC (5v) for f5. I have started to use WV Bluebird servos that are safe from 1S to 2S but not 3S. I find these servos are a good midrange servo that center well.

However, 100mAh, equates to 33mAh for a 3 servo system, possibly 4 if you include the quiescent current drawn by the ESC plus receiver..

An 600mAh battery should comfortable run a setup such as this for 3 hours (using a 20 second 60m limit) before it starts complaining, not start to fail after1 hour unless of course there has been multiple motor runs. I only use my batteries for 2 (F5L) flights now after having a spectacularly catastrophic failure at 3 seconds with my 100S sized Cheshire Cat at a club comp last year.

Not questioning your sanity, just trying to understand what is going on..

 

 

[AnthonyB]

Martyn, here we have one of the first of Vladimir's 4m Avas. All 1600g of it.

No repairs, no replacements and no updates.

The motor happens to be a Hyper-Co (Aveox), with 6 poles and Cobalt ultra thin laminations. Irrelevant, but what an (actual) efficient motor.

The esc is big and crude with a bec in. Battery is 1400-3S.

The Rx is full size, 2 aerial, 2 receiver circuits and full telemetry.

An RC Electronics AMRT – with bright light burning.

Finally down in the tail are 2 MKS DS6100 servos. One moving a larger rudder, with sliding / rotating fit and the other moving a large all moving tailplane.

Not moving it uses 60mA and wiggling the sticks (a lot) I could just get it up to 150mA.

I would throw it up in an evening, sat in my deckchair and very regularly fly for an hour.

Nothing special, but I would not land, that would mean getting out of my chair :-

The 2 above were all one flight, for some reason I split them. You also told me I could not (do the same) and just register the glide part as an entry. So I changed to landing and unplugging a lot more. Just look how much climbing it does.

I have never, ever had a problem with flat batteries.

That is why I am trying to understand - also.

My servos don't jump or buzz, they just sit there quietly. (at 60mA for a system). 

I do know how to burn out servos and flatten batteries - use a gyro, then it is constantly moving.

However I do like to let the glider glide and do nothing, waiting for it to "give me a sign" - so minimum discharge. (Or smoothest glide) Then again it could be to have a sip of the evening's refreshment.

Perhaps it is part of it constantly churning the sticks.

[martynk]

Final table.

Congratulations to SteveH once again.  A great turnout for May, well done all and thanks for supporting this event

     

[Paul Wellacott]

On 01/06/2023 at 17:55, martynk said:

Final table.

Congratulations to SteveH once again.  A great turnout for May, well done all and thanks for supporting this event

     

Thanks for pulling it all together, very much appreciated by all I’m sure.

[iti20090]

Hi there from  the Southern tip of Africa. 

Our 2M and other thermal numbers are thinning fast and we were fortunate to muster just six pilots for our provincial thermal champs weekend past, had a gas with the Hyperflight Sapphire though. 

I am thus armed with Altis and drooling over the F5L option kits out there along with your excellent rules but not confident of mustering sufficient local following to justify buying/building.... 

I luv the simple rules, co-incidentally not that far from a novelty thermal we did for a giggle recently, anything went in that case, though to 180m launch height.

Would it be too awful to contemplate if we were to unoffically post our own "out of the UK" monthly attempts, albeit for not adding to the UK ladder? 

Cheers

Dave

East Coast RSA clubbie soaring