New F5J model designs for 2019

[Martin Church]

Hi Pete Happy NewYear to you.

It’s a different family mate but not the first time I’ve had the family tie mentioned to me

I was at first going to buy a Vladimir Sprite Thermal E would that be a good start? It would roughly come to aroun 1k with a decent power line 1010 micro turbo geared motor? 

[EssexBOF]

8 hours ago, pete beadle said:

Hi Martin

Happy new year to you

I don't know if you remember me, but used to fly with/against your father, "Tiny" in BARCS "Open" way back in the day.........

Can I suggest you start with a 2 metre-2.5 metre RES model?, they are pretty good for small-field operation and a lot more forgiving than the ultra-light, spread tow, super narrow fuselage models currently in vogue. It may seem heresy to say this, but the built-up ones available from chaps like Hyperflight seem, to me anyway, roughly comparable with each other as regards performance, and much simpler, easier to fly and a lot more forgiving than the 3.5 - 4.0 metre 1.2 - 1.5 kilo AUW competition-ready planes that seem to be being preferred at the moment........and, dare I mention it....they don't cost £2k!

Just a thought, you may want to head straight into the modern, Open class F5J "biggies" but, to my mind, if you are constrained by having to use a small field I'd have thought an AndREas or something similar might be just the ticket!

Best of luck anyway

Pete

BARCS1702

The "Tiny" Church you are referring too, Pete, lives in Tiptree,  Essex and his son is Gary Church. Sadly, neither of them fly much now, Tiny though incapacity and Gary is into motorbikes again.

A good model to fly IMHO is the 2 Metre Q12. It only weighs in at just over 550 grams RTF. Penetrates suprisingl well and can be landed most times with no damage as it is so light. They do a larger version now called "Geronimo", but have not seen one to know how they perform. This is probably because they fall in between 2 and 4 metre classes.

 

[AnthonyB]

I totally agree with EssexBOF about the Sapphire. I did some  dive tests and published them in eSoaring.net.  This was full crow and then dive straight down. The fastest I could get was 5.5m/sec. I don't have the files so went and found it on eSoaring. Wow - it was in 2012, and the model was not new then. Says a lot, that it has done a few hundred hours and still flies perfectly. It will dive straight down (at 5.5m/sec) and at about 2m agl pull a little up elevator to level flight, where it settles down to the ground in less than 10m. I land mine in my garden, which has tall trees

 

round.

[Martin Church]

I’ve just found this is it any good?

ps I do have access to a much larger field that I could fly this in. A little further away but still less than 10 miles.

Euphoria v2 Carbon F5J 4m span 4 x MKS DS6100 2 x MKS DS1625 Leomotion L3013-4550 F5J 6.7:1 geared brushless motor HK 60 amp ESC Carbon Vitaprop 14-9.5 Vladimirs Models Padded Bag.

Martin

[Eddy Small]

Any body  flying the  Explore BF . I see Steve Haley is testing one at present.

Any thoughts or observations would be appreciated.

Regards Eddy.

[Steve Haley]

Hi Eddy,

From the outset I have only competed in F5J with Samba models  (Pike variants) as these designs have tended to suit my rather direct style of flying following 35 years in F3B. So it’s a little difficult for me to give a true perception on the Explorer BF performance benefits against the Standard Explorer configuration which I only switched to for flat calm conditions in EC last year. Although I have tested and set up many different F5J models for father and son preferences, the Explorers major strength, is its easy flying charteristics and especially in thermal turns. Although  I have my own style of thermal turns, it’s quite noticeable, that the Explorer is much more planted in turns and requires much less stick activity than other models I have flown. That said, I struggled in Bulgaria to find a set up that I liked with the standard Explorer as they do fly and feel different  to the Pikes that I’m am used to. However, I did manage to test the BF Explorer last weekend in near calm conditions and played around with different flap settings. Using significant positive flap, in fairly neutral air, the floating charteristics were impressive and regardless of the theorist conjecture on Rc groups, my feeling from very limited testing is that in calm air, the BF version is a step forward and seems to have no disadvantages in active thermic conditions given what we saw in Bulgaria last year.

I also have the new F5J specifically designed skinny fuselage which is distinctive in both minamilistic cross section and the negative boom angle between wing and tail which I am told, is to improve neutral wing efficiency when in distance mode. Fusalarge installation does require careful consideration as the servos are mounted on the Center section wing seat and protrude into the wing via a hole cut into the bottom skin. Some pilots are also having to mount the receivers in the wing given the fuselage limited space!

The new fuselage is Not for everyone and I know the standard F3j style fuselage works just fine for most pilots. 

hope this helps

Steve

[wookman]

That is a tight but beautifully executed install. 

[Eddy Small]

Thanks Steve, most helpful. If i do invest  in this model i will stick with the standard fuse as it would be compatible with my existing fleet.

Regards, Eddy.

[CTR]

Hi Martin,

Regarding your post about small field flying, I too confirm that the Q12/Saphire is a very good 2m model.

As you know I’m not the best pilot by any means, but I built a Q12 the week before the Nats ‘18. Test flew the first time for 30 mins or so on the evening before the 2m comp for trimming. Competed the next day in not ideal conditions; absolutely astounded that I won!

Can only say that I found it very well suited to my style and treated it much like a grown up F3K with a 4 servo wing. 512g auw with geared hacker and 13” prop. 3s 1000mA 60c battery. (Good for 2 launches). In total, not a massive expense and < a top end DLG.

Also, 2m is better than anything a little larger as you can compete in the 2m class. However, not really competitive against the big ships of F5J (I know because I tried on the following day at the nats). It was crazy wind and the Q12 was just too light for comfort.

Good luck with your deliberations.

Neil P

[Martin Church]

Time for some honesty & I know may have bitten off more than I can chew by buying an Elnino.

Wish me luck

[CTR]

Jump in at the deep end, why not!

Best wishes in getting to grips with it without too much negative altitude flying 

Neil P

[Peter]

Hi Neil

I see that you are based in Northampton which is not a million miles away from many members of the Ivinghoe Club  and our flying field at Hockliffe so if you need any help and advice just ask.

My home is south of Aylesbury so not so close but Ozzie Osbourne who has a lot of experience is based  in Daventry so quite close.

Good luck!

[CJS]

I have read with interest this thread, much of which I can identify with, in particular the issues that British weather poses.    My experience goes back to the late 60’s and Ivinghoe Beacon, logical really as I lived within a ten minute drive.  We flew 60” wing span aerobatic types, wings held on with rubber bands and ballasted with strips of flashing lead taped under the fuzz with parcel tape.  Many a time the wings could be seen parting from the fuzz in high speed positive ‘G’ manoeuvres.

One has learned a lot since those early days.  One thing I remember very clearly was a 'windy westerly' session.  Those primitive 60” gliders handled the measured 40mph wind with ease with their lead flashing ballast and thick’ish semi symmetrical sections.

Much has happened since those days, now live in Suffolk and have full filled an ambition of flying flat field 4m sail plains.  The challenge, its nature that one has to understand.  This started about 5 years ago, one went around in mental circles for a long time.

I have reached a point that I think Martin Church has come to.  Having come through fommies, Hyperflights Sapphire was my first proper thermal sorerer, a quality time for me in retrospect.

One brock away from standard progression by going for the HF Kappa 35.  Fairly light, thin wing nice finish, the two things that sealed the deal, a 38mm spinner ring, so it can be powered by a host of 35mm, cost effective direct drives.  And second . . . a price tag that was and still is (IMHO) value for money.

I’m not convinced of the the advantages of light weight that seems to be current trend.

One sat and thought a lot on this subject during 2018.  Thick winged models did not seem to work so well when ‘ultra light’ options were offered, producing what I saw as inconsistency.  2017/18 had me flying a very heavy 3 year old and battered Pike Perfection.  It flies like a dream at 1850grs regardless of weather!

I keep the Pike as a reference (reality!).  One moved on to a 4m Kappa 40 . . . not in my humble opinion as good a flying experience as the 35.  Picked up an Ultima around September 2018.  Proved to be a challenge, difficult to get it to settle on any one trim setting?   Desperation, throw the rule book out of the window, work on instinct, as we did back in the day . . .

The last few flying sessions were a different story, the CG is to far back IMHO, started to play with the camber settings ‘one click in sub trim’ at a time.  Cant get on the field in the winter, rain stop play.

So one turned to my thinking of thin wing, reasonable weight, remembering my experience with adding weight to Ultima, nearly 100grs!  At end of play in November, Ultima was showing signs of  mimicking the flight qualities of my reference Pike.

Winter project time . . . ???????  I have had an El Nino  kit sitting in the corner since May 2018.  It ticks all the boxes, light, thin, high aspect ratio wing, a problem to get a direct drive motor in, an even bigger problem if ones preference was a gear box/motor power train.  I have overcome that one.  Push rods are poor potentially flexing as the 20swg tails are very long, overcome that one too.

I doubt I will be able to test fly El Nino until Easter time.  The specification is right for penetration into 15/20mph, say the notes on Hyperfligh web listing.

I have a busy year ahead, working the Ultima into what it has indicated is possible?  Get to grips with the Kappa 35 and trimming El Nino to ‘my limited level’ of competition standard.  In fact I think, with the other projects I have on brew, its enough work for 2019/20/21??????